Generative Energy #10: A Bioenergetic View of Digestion and Mood


Listen to Georgi (aka Haidut) and I discuss a bioenergetic view of digestion and mood in the real organism on Episode #10 of The Generative Energy Podcast! 

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01:45 - Danny and Georgi’s digestive experiences
02:30 - The Pavlov Principle - “you are what you eat”
03:43 - Low-carb and long-distance running
04:12 - Is lactic acid a useful fuel?
05:45 - Georgi’s crash on low-carb
06:37 - Discovering Ray Peat
07:18 - Interest in inflammatory bowel disorders
07:55 - The resolution of symptoms with a bowel movement
08:48 - Digestive problems and the simple medical mind
11:27 - Internet Paleo diet experts and the intestine
12:10 - The problem with modern and alternative medicine
13:41 - Prebiotic and probiotic problems
14:30 - Lactobacillus and lactate production
15:15 - Fermented foods, lactate, and cancer
16:14 - 5-HTP, L-tryptophan—is increasing serotonin a good idea?
17:17 - Excess serotonin causes fibrosis
18:15 - The bioenergetic view of digestive function
21:07 - The hypothyroid colon - carbon dioxide deficiency
22:25 - An explanation of cellular respiration from Georgi [Info Graphic:]
26:33 - Lab tests for digestive health
28:43 - The liver detoxifies endotoxin
29:15 - “One of the biggest appeals of Ray’s ideas”
30:00 - Thiamine (vitamin B1) and digestive illness
30:21 - Caffeine, vitamin K2, and liver health
31:37 - Caffeine (with sugar) is similar to thyroid hormone
32:48 - Caffeine tolerance as a metric for liver health? 
34:14 - Caffeine tolerance between ages (anecdote) 
35:26 - Caffeine lowers serotonin and increases dopamine
36:39 - Danny talks about mood
37:19 - Aggression is the result of a impaired metabolism
38:33 - Carrageenan—a powerful carcinogenic allergen
39:05 - Is the FDA a joke?
40:15 - Antibiotics—useful for lowering serotonin, endotoxin, and nitric oxide?
41:00 - Is the destruction of the gut flora a bad thing?
41:50 - Intestinal bacteria and serotonin
43:11 - Long-term antibiotic use
43:48 - Carrot salad, bamboo shoots, and vitamin K for intestinal health
44:53 - Should you take vitamin K when you take an antibiotic?
46:00 - Georgi’s tips for digestion, mood, and stress tolerance
46:33 - Georgi’s thoughts on “resistance starch”
48:00 - Ammonia as an underrated factor in health
49:20 - Protein, potato juice, green leaves, and ripe fruits
50:45 - Low fat intake and serotonin synthesis
51:31 - Georgi, where can we find more of your work?


DR: today I’m talking with Georgi aka Haidut of Georgi is an independent health researcher and the owner of idea labs a small company producing high-quality boutique supplements with the focus of supporting a healthy metabolism today georgi and I will discuss digestion and mood from a bioenergetic point of view, or the interaction between an organism and it’s environment and how those changes influence cellular respiration. . in addition to thanking Gyorgi for talking with me today, I’d like to think my patrons from making this show and all the content I produced possible you like to become a patron you can go to patreon dot com slash Danny Roddy without further ado here’s the show 

DR: I was thinking that we would tie Nitric Oxide into this because that is strongly involved in digestive problems, correct?

G: It May be one of the primary causes

DR: and I understand little about it but it’s really interesting to me and it’s confusing based on the emails I receive and even how Ray talks about it, with the general “Alright so how does it become out of control?” But before we get into that and we can dive into that at anytime, I thought we start a little bit slower and dive into your experiences with digestion, for myself moving from a low carb to ray peat inspired diet was just horrendous, and I always feel for people who are switching over because my digestion was just the worst, and that can be really confusing especially when your body is trying to give you all these signals and you are trying to do something new. So I thought that would be a good starting place.

G: Awesome, I would say I have always been interested in nutrition and healthy living so to speak, and I did damage to myself because I was an athlete in college, and also come from a country where the dogma was they do not believe in genetics, so there was daily practice and they believed in the Pavlov principle that the closest interaction with the environment and the world around you was through the food that you eat so basically you are what you eat and if you eat bad stuff you become bad communist, right? So I wanted to be a good communist, so then I paid attention to what they were teaching in school and some of it was pretty good so I became interested in nutrition because that’s the primary way you interact with the environment react with the environment it plays a primary role in life in general. I think lots of people realize after they lose their health it effects every aspect of their life. So I was an athlete in college that naturally got me interested in endurance sports after college I was on the crew team in college so that’s a very grueling endurance type of sport. So after I graduated everyone told me you need to stay in shape and one of the best ways to do it is continue doing what you been doing. Well I didn’t have any desire to get up at five in the morning to go row in the freezing cold rain. So I picked the next best thing that I thought and that was long distance running. Long distance running and the Paleo world are really like best buddies, And I think that it seems the main premise of endurance sports is that you can only do it if you become a fat burner. Clearly if you run for 26 miles you are not going to have enough glycogen to sustain you. Even if you do at some point you will start producing a lot of lactic acid, so the body adapted to burning fat after a certain amount of endurance exercise.

DR: Cause Georgi, Lactic Acid is a useful fuel.

G: oh no no, but only in emergency situations, even people in the ER will tell you that. I had a friend of mine who ended up in the ER and I talked to the doctor who observed him, and one of the first things they did was measure the lactic acid, and they gave the person some intravenous thiamine, and I asked why and he said because the stress reaction, thiamine rises in the blood and the brain and liver can use it in emergency situations to produce glucose from lactate, and he says if you do this for too long it starts to poison you and it causes hypoxia, so we try to get them out of the shock state so we give them something to modify lactate. So right then and there, I knew that the purpose of Ray, at least when it comes to shock state is correct. Back to fat burning basically since I started running long distances, 6-8 miles 5-6 times a week some of my buddies introduced me to the paleo world I went to some meetings a lot of people seemed to be using and the paleo diet, and it seemed pretty natural. Initially and to be honest it felt really good almost too good which should have been a warning sign, although I was too stupid at the time. Like Mike Tyson used to say “Old too soon, smart too late.” Hopefully not the case for me. Between 2008 and 2009 I was very much into running, very much into low carb, happily burning my fat. Then one morning in 2009 I crashed completely, I woke up one morning and I couldn’t move. I basically presented muscle pain dizziness, and muscle weakness pretty scary neurological symptoms, so I went to the doctor. He wanted me to get a lot of imaging, thankfully I avoided the xrays which I did some MRIs and ultrasounds, and they basically said nothing is structurally wrong with you so just keep doing what you are doing. I kept doing what I was doing for another month, and then I got such a bad flu that I spent two weeks in bed. Again I think Ray had a similar episode in his younger years, so something wasn’t working, that I realized whatever I was doing wasn’t working. I started researching a little bit, I think it was through reddit I found a post by a person who had very similar symptoms as me, and he suggested that I do some tests for estrogen, for prolactin for cortisol and some of them came back high, especially the prolactin part, cortisol was normal, prolactin was high, and estrogen was actually borderline high as well. So I started googling what could be causing these things, and I just happened to type estrogen prolactin cortisol neurological conditions and a ray peat article popped up. That’s how I found him through almost serendipity so to speak. I found his website and since the very first part it immediately clicked.

DR: When did you become interested in constipation, diarrhea, chron’s, etc?

G: I was also interested back then, because while I was having neurological issues I was also having digestive issues, but no one paid enough attention to them. I was told this is what’s causing them, you are stressed and you have anxiety and you have depression and that’s probably what is causing these digestive issues. Honestly I laughed even though I didn’t know then it was complete BS, How can these thing be completely unrelated. I mean it seemed like all my neurological symptoms they all coincided with digestive ones, yet no doctor that I saw wanted to make the connection.

DR: That’s funny that you mention that. Like two or three people have pointed out that they will have a bowel movement and then whatever problem they were having will just completely disappear and I always thought that that observation was extremely interesting.

G: Yeah it doesn’t surprise me because once the food turns into fecal matter you really have no use for it so the sooner you expel it the better. In other words the faster your digestion, minus diarrhea or certain diarrhea, the better your health will probably be because after you have extracted whatever can be extracted from the food the more it lingers inside you the more it bothers you through various media that it helps create nitric oxide, serotonin, prolactin, estrogen, the prostaglandins as well. Really waste should be treated as waste and expelled as soon as possible.

DR: And what are some of the common treatments when you go to the conventional doctor for those problems?

G:If you read research on digestive issues they will try to group them into several large categories. I guess modern medicine trys to split things in to structural and functional diseases. So the first thing they will do is try to rule out the structural causes such as a tumor or a perforation in the intestines or there’s something else nefarious going on. So the first thing they will do is usually send you for some kind of imaging, at their discretion, usually almost all of them start first with ionizing radiation, and for some reason they strongly resist sending you for an adominal MRI, maybe it’s because of price. The first thing they do is the imaging, if that fails they will try to coax you in to doing some kind of a scoping session such as an anoscopy if you have a stomach issue closer to the rib cage or colonoscopy if your complaints are down further closer to the pelvis, all these things, sometimes they will even suggest a biopsy, and if that fails, I have friends who have been suggested and agreed to a laboroscopy imaging. In other words they will cut your belly open and stick a camera in there and try to look at things. Yep that’s really part of the diagnosis, surgery is really part of the diagnostic procedure. It’s really amazing. If everything else fails, in other words all the diagnostic attempts to diagnose a structural disease fail, they will either tell you “you have a functional problem”, and I will talk about this later, or you have a mental problem. Then they will deliver you to a psychiatrist or if it is a functional problem they will tell you there is basically nothing they can do, obviously now they have a test for IBS which happens to be a synthetic kind of endotoxin, if you can believe it or not, and then basically if you have a functional disease they will tell you there’s not much they can do. So the several main classe are: inflammatory bowel, which include things like chron’s disease, ulcerative colitis, and some people have a chronic gastritis that’s probably there to, even though modern medicine hasn’t made up its mind if you can have ulcerative gastritis, it’s just chronic gastritis. So those are the inflammatory bowel diseases of unknown etiology and unknown origin basically. They don’t know what is causing them and on the other spectrum the functional disease are mainly called IBS, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and they are classified in many types Diarrhea predominant or constipation predominant. So if you have a constipation and you go to a GI doctor and you don’t have a tumor or some type of structural damages that can be seen on some type of imaging you will likely be lumped into one of these categories.

DR: So I suspect that the poor treatment of digestive issues motivates people to look into diet, because when I was hanging out with the paleo people they positioned themselves as digestion experts. Everything was related to the gut, they would talk about probiotics, fermented foods, how important it was to avoid sugar specifically because of fructose malabsorption. And if ray’s focus is on thyroid and energy metabolism, it seems like there focus was on the intestine, but minus a lot of context for how that was working.

G: Yeah because I have talked to some alternative people, alternative medicine natural medicine, and especially the ones that recommend the probiotic and the fermented foods, so here’s the thing, both modern medicine and the alternative approach, they don’t believe that structure and function are interdependent at every level. For many of these people it is all about structure, and if there is a change in structure it must be either genetic or their was some kind of a trauma, or there was some kind of a external force that delivered the trauma, and almost none of the practitioners, especially the medical professionals are willing to consider the idea that chronic declining function can actually cause structural changes. This is starting to change recently I think there was a study that came out in the beginning of 2008 that now admits that functional decline precedes structural changes in people with depression and now they realize that inflammation plays a very large role in various depressive type disorders. So basically, typically if you believe that structure is the only thing that causes problems and you don’t know what the reasons could be, you could set up a regimen that doesn’t really correspond with human physiology. It’s not a bad thing to consider that a lot of health problems start in the gut, but if you are going to treat things starting in the gut you need to know a little about cell physiology and what is likely to work and what isn’t. So for example the pre-biotics, and now they are even suggesting probiotics, and basically they are saying the digestive issues are from the bacteria in your colon which is pathological. You have the wrong type of bacteria. You take these pills or you eat this yogurt that costs twenty dollars for a little packet, all your problems will disappear. A couple things are wrong with that. First of all as far I know, it has not been shown ingesting probiotics or foods with pro biotics will get to your colon, unless they are in a special formulation and most of these are pharmaceutical drugs. So if you are buying them from the local grocery store at best they will be ineffective. But lately and I actually looked at some research and it seems to go back to the 1940s, people noticed that the people with a high number of lactobacillus species in their colon, they tend to have an abnormal rate of autoimmune conditions especially lupus. I think that the correlation is also strong for multiple schlerosis for rheumatoid arthritis. So basically, lactic acid producing bacteria is probably not good for you. I started the show talking about lactic acid being an emergency fuel, but if it is allowed to persist in your system for too long it becomes highly pathogenic, promoting hypoxia and hypoxia leads to cancer. So why would you want to ingest food that makes you produce more lactic acid? I just don’t understand the rationale, I think that you should seriously question the pro biotic and the pre biotic approach. As far as the fermented foods they also provide lactic acid, that’s the process of fermentation in foods and in cancer cells. So you are providing direct lactic acid to your system, and if you are in a comprised state it can put you into a shock state pretty quickly. On top of that fermented foods are mutagenic and carcinogenic. Japan and South Korea that have the highest consumption of fermented food in the world, also have the highest incidences of stomach cancer. Of course correlation doesn’t prove causality but given the mechanism and the physiology behind how these foods and supplemental pro biotics work, I don’t think it is likely for these things to work, at best and at worst knowing how the stomach handles lactic acid and various mutagens from the environment you may be increasing your risk of cancer so I think the approach is based on a misunderstanding of how cell physiology works.

DR: And the alternative tends to believe that serotonin is something you do want to increase, and I don’t know too many people at least high profile celebrity people who haven’t suggested or sell things like 5 HTP or L Tryptophan. Just that point of view, not understanding the role of serotonin in digestion and cellular physiology don’t know that could have a disastrous consequence.

G: I agree and I have actually challenged some people to explain why they are taking 5HTP or SSRIs which are actually commonly prescribed for digestive disorders as well as glutamate. I questioned both doctors and members of the alternative why, and the answer they give is “Well, Serotonin promotes good motility and if you have a constipation or a digestive issue that will make you get rid of the waste faster.” I guess that’s one way to look at it just keep in mind one of serotonin’s physiological functions is to increase intestinal contractions, in other words, stimulate bowel movements. However in excess, and many of these bowel problems are caused by excessive serotonin, in excess serotonin is the primary cause of fibrosis. If you have a condition like chron’s or ulcerative colitis probably the worst thing you can do is take a serotonin precursor like tryptophan or and SSRI like Prozac or lexipro, and other members of the SSRI family and that will increase the levels of serotonin both in your brain and in your gut. 90% of your serotonin that is produced is in the gut and if the amount that is produced is physiological you don’t want to increase it any more. At best it’s going to give you diarrhea at worst it will cause fibrosis of the digestive tract and that’s pretty much what the advanced stages of chron’s disease and ulcerative colitis are. Basically you get so much fibrosis that the only treatment they can suggest is surgical removal of the entire colon and wearing a colostomy bag for the rest of your life

DR: So focusing on metabolism, or bioenergetics would be a good way to go about experimenting with nutrition, supplements and pharmaceuticals?

G: Yeah and I will start with explaining at least my understanding of the bioenergetic view and how it corresponds to the digestive issues. So basically, when your metabolism is not working well, that has a systemic effect. It’s everywhere, so we have to start with the premise, you have to understand that the premise of modern medicine that things are isolated and don’t effect each other is just wrong. Most people show up with an isolated disease have systemic symptoms. To just brush them aside and say they are unrelated it doesn’t do anybody any good. It buries the person’s symptoms and medicine should be doing something to treat them and the correct thing to do is to look what is causing these symptoms and if they are systemic assume that in the lack of other evidence an isolated symptom is probably a manifestation of a systemic disease. In other words, if your metabolism is not working and if the cell is not properly energized, the cell swells and absorbs water from its surroundings the potassium and magnesium in the cell are intercellular minerals, and they basically stay within the cell, and when the cell absorbs water it flushes them out of the cell. It absorbs calcium and sodium and sometimes this is physiological because the muscle needs to contract, and the muscles in your gastrointestinal tract need to contract. Calcium is what’s responsible for the contraction of muscles so you do need that in certain states. However, in low energy states the cell will have trouble returning to its resting state. In other words, when the cell is excited it absorbs water, lose potassium and magnesium and takes in sodium and calcium. And when the event that triggered the excitement is over, a well energized person a cell with energy will return to its resting state and absorb potassium and magnesium and expel sodium and calcium. Now this whole process of absorption and expulsion of water that’s especially true for the cells in the colon, and even the small intestine because the very function of the colon is to remove water from the fecal material, and make it solid. In people that don’t have colon they have a state of almost chronic diarrhea, because they are missing that part of the digestive tract which turns the food waste into fecal matter. Basically the purpose of the colon is to remove water and to make the stool hard. In a hypothyroid person the colon is chronically swollen, as we described because of the absorbed water, and when this is maintained chronically it contributes to inflammation because any swelling and absorption of water will tend to increase estrogen. Water build up anywhere will increase estrogen and serotonin, these things on their own will increase the synthesis of nitric oxide and prolactin.

DR: And when the cells are swollen and they are taking up sodium and losing potassium and magnesium, they are producing lactic acid, they are producing the liberation of the free fatty acids, and lowering carbon dioxide.

G: Oh yeah, if the cell is in an excited state and it has proper reserves, it can handle that state and once the state is over it will return to its resting state. But if the excitation event continues for too long or if the person doesn’t have proper energetic reserves, eventually the cell will not have the ability to return to its resting state. So you will be stuck in that inefficient metabolism, that is common not just in cancer cells, I think medical science is beginning to show the wasting of glucose in production of lactic acid is found in all chronic degenerative conditions. In fact, it’s even found in people with the flu. I know of people who have gone to the ER with flu like systems and part of the hydration protocol they are always given thiamine, and the rationale is that thiamine will lower lactate and it will make their symptoms of malaise go away. Lactic Acid is what causes general symptoms of malaise.

DR: Is that because the thiamine, the pyruvate dihydrogenase, that’s actually a co factor for that

G: Yes that’s actually the point. Maybe it is good to explain how the whole metabolism work, because I think some people are confused. Is glycolysis good? Is it bad? What should we inhibit? What should we enhance? So you can divide metabolism into three main categories: Glycolysis, kreb’s cycle, oxidative phosphorilation. The first section, is always glycolysis, without glycolysis your cells would not be able to work. I mean that is you take glucose and the end product of glycolysis is Pyruvate. There’s two things that can happen to pyruvate afterwards. IF the enzyme pyruvate dihydrogenase which is a thiamine dependent enzyme and the enzyme pyruvate carboxylase which is a biotin and manganese dependent enzyme, if these two enzymes are working they will pick up pyruvate and they will convert it to Acetyl COA which is the entry point to the Kreb’s Cycle. Now Kreb’s cycle works without oxygen so it basically does not have the opportunity to produce lactic acid, but if one of these enzymes of both are not working, and they are shown to not work in cancer cells and other sick cells as well, Pyruvate will build up. The end product of glycolysis is pyruvate and the reduced coenzyme called NADH. During the process of glycolysis, pyruvate is produced and glucose and NAD is also consumed and NADH is also produced. Now the body needs NAD to continue the metabolism, now after glycolysis if the build up of pyruvate and NADH goes on too long the body will say I need my NAD back, and the way it gets it is either by external precursors like niacinamide, or by the recycling of NADH. And the way this happens, how do get back the reduced form of NADH, you oxidize it, and in the absence of oxygen in anaerobic kreb’s cycle, pyruvate is the oxidizing agent, so what happens is the enzyme lactate dihydrogenase takes pyruvate and NADH, and converts them into Lactate and NAD. That’s basically if your kreb’s cycle is not working you will be stuck in glycolysis, and if it continues to long with the build up of pyruvate and NADH the enzyme lactate dihydrogenase will convert the excess pyruvate to lactate, and that’s seen in all cancer cells, no matter what kind of cancer you have.

DR: And a simple way of viewing that if this is correct, is that we are bombarded with electron donors, and

G: NADH is basically, in proper metabolism the body will use NADH as an electron donor later in the oxidation phosphorilation cycle to generate ATP, through the enzyme ATP synthase. Assuming your glycolysis is working properly, the enzymes pyruvate dihydrogenase and pyruvate caboxylase are working properly. The pyruvate will get converted to form Acetyl COA, go through the Kreb’s Cycle and eventually will get used in the generation of reduced form of coenzyme Q10 and also the NADH enzyme. So basically these carriers of electrons are what is used in the electron transport shuttles in the oxidative phosphorlation to actually get the electrons from NADH and give them to the therminal acceptor which is oxygen. In the process NADH is recycled back to NAD. This is the correct way to maintain a high NAD to NADH ratio, by getting the NADH produced at the very first step which is glycolysis, until you are all the way through the kreb’s cycle and all the four steps of oxidative phosphorilation, and at the very end use oxygen as the final acceptor, to properly oxidize NADH and convert it into NAD. Recently, every institution that has been researching this, has found so far there has been no condition that was studied that does not include excessive glycolysis and excessive production of lactic acid which can chronic inhibition of oxidative phosphorilation.

DR: So inefficient metabolism causes an increase in the hormones and substances you talked about like serotonin, prolactin, cortisol and these just greatly interfere with digestion.

G: Depending on the test of course, I think a lot of people are confused about what kind of test to get. If you are getting the basic metabolic panel.

DR: what test would you suggest. We talked about prolactin as being a basic marker of health.

G: yeah I think prolactin, is an excellent marker of health because it rises under acute and chronic stress, and its also a good surrogate for your tissue levels of both estrogen and for your serotonin reserves. So in other words by measuring prolactin, and it has been shown that the blood levels of prolactin are reliable predictors of prolactin, by measuring prolactin you will know exactly how estrogenic and serotonergic your entire body is. I guess you can do a blood test for serotonin as well, but unless you have a carcinoid syndrome, which is probably the best example of why people who say serotonin is the happy hormone are full of it, unless you have carcinoid syndrome your blood serotonin will not be too high, but I think it is worth getting prolactin because you have a better idea of where you stand.

DR: I think Ray mentioned Plasma serotonin. I never seen anybody get that, but I think he mentioned it in a KMUD interview.

G: Yeah it’s more expensive. I think a typical test that’s being done is whole blood serotonin, and he recommends plasma and I have asked my doctor for it, and he refused and said the insurance will not cover it. Basically the insurance companies spend a lot of money lobbying organizations to try and establish good correlation between the cheap tests and whatever biomarker you are looking for. So whole blood serotonin is where it’s at right now. I think prolactin is a better one and it will tell you how much serotonin you have in reserve both in the gut and in the brain. So prolactin test is good. I think a lot of the tests of liver function are helpful, because the primary detoxifier of endotoxin is the liver. That’s why people with ulcerative colitis, Chron’s, IBS the diseases characterized with excessive output of endotoxin, they have a abnormally high rates of liver disease as well. Especially lately liver cancer, and one of the reasons is that endotoxin triggers the production of serotonin especially in the gut. It’s the primary trigger for serotonin in the gut and serotonin is the primary agent of fibrosis everywhere in the body but especially in the liver and the intestines. One of the biggest appeals of Ray’s ideas, if you can even call them Ray’s ideas, let’s say one of the biggest appeals of the energetic ideas is that everything falls from other things, you don’t have to look for isolated issues basically you know that two thirds of the bacteria is produced in the liver, and you know that endotoxin is one of the primary poisons of the liver, you will know immediately that people with the conditions tend to overproduce endotoxin, will have liver issues, will have thyroid issues, will in general be in poor health, if bioenergetics is correct and so far based on what we have seen it has not been falsified not even once. I have not met a person with Chron’s or ulcerative colitis that have not been extremely fatigued. Recently there have been two trials in Italy, using thiamine, vitamin B1, only 600 mg a day of thiamine(B1) a day in both Chron’s and ulcerative colitis patients restored their ability to exercise and to live a normal life. The explanation was the metabolism was restored these people produced too much lactic acid which triggered all the bad biomarkers promoting serotonin, endotoxin, prolactin, and estrogen.

DR: Besides a trial of thyroid, do you want to talk about Caffeine, a little bit I have been interested in understanding all the studies you have been posting especially it’s effect on liver health.

G: Caffeine, and vitamin K2 are probably the two best things for your liver that are found naturally, and the other two things I know are the amino acids taurine and glycine. There are many reasons but one of the main ones is that taurine helps the liver detoxify itself, it triggers the production of bioacids, and makes the liver shed its fat into the bloodstream it gets the liver lean again. Glycine receptors in the spinal column and the brain our the main inhibitory neurotransmitters, overall if too much cellular excitation is what characterizes all these diseases, than an inhibitory amino acid like glycine is likely to be helpful. By the way Taurine, Glycine, and Beta Alanine are all analogs of the gamma amino butyric acid neurotransmitter and that is the primary calming neurotransmitter in the brain, so they bind to the GABA receptor and agonize it, so they are all likely to have similar pharmacological profiles and benefits as well. Caffeine is actually very similar to thyroid hormone, I saw a study recently that showed as little as 50 mg, five zero, when take with 20 mg of sucrose, sugar, raised resting energy expenditure by 6%, and that increase was maintained for 12 hours. So It shows that you don’t need to do much to improve the metabolism, the tools are already out there. They tend to be very cheap and easily accessible. There’s a lot of propaganda against them. To me Caffeine is actually a thyroid surrogate. It has shown in animal studies and recently in humans to lower TSH which is thyroid stimulating hormone, it’s a pituitary hormone, and when it’s high it means your thyroid is not working well, your body thinks you need more thyroid. So lowering TSH and raising the levels of T4 and T3, and these are the effects caffeine has, this basically is reminiscent of what taking a thyroid hormone will do. It does the same. Clearly taking T3 and T4 will raise the levels in the blood but they also suppress TSH, because it signals to the body that you have extra hormone. Caffeine is able to achieve the same.

DR: You mentioned that you tolerance to caffeine could be a good metric of your liver health which I thought was really brilliant. 

G: as matter of fact it’s considered a test for liver cirrhosis in several countries. I knew about the hypothesis that the tolerance to caffeine can be used to sort of guesstimate how your liver function is but believe it or not in Venezuela, Norway, and several other countries a specific dosage of caffeine is administered orally and then certain parameters are monitored such as the production of lactate, the production of adrenaline, cortisol and how quickly caffeine is excreted how long it’s half life is. And people who have impaired liver function, caffeine takes a long time to reach peak concentration in plasma, because whenever it is ingested orally it has to first pass through the liver. The liver decides how much to put into the blood stream after the first pass, the second pass is elimination. Basically it has been shown in people with poor liver function that caffeine maintains a long half life. I know people who have proven poor liver function through tests and they know it and it is not a secret, and they have problems with caffeine. They can not drink coffee, and they have tried to combine with a benzo acetylacetate like valium and xanax, and it is still not working. It’s not in their brain it’s in their liver. And the liver determines how well you react to caffeine.

DR: that was really interesting to me, because I have a lot of younger friends and I always noticed that they would drink coffee throughout the day, including night time and they would never have problems sleeping, and then my older friends that would just be unthinkable it would keep them up all night.

G: Yeah, If you look at a bioenergetic perspective it all makes sense, if caffeine raises you metabolism it also raises your need for nutrients. So if your cells are not capable of metabolizing glucose, in other words if they have a functional glucose deficiency even though they may be hyperglycemia in the blood that basically triggers the production of cortisol because the body doesn’t think it has enough glucose. That’s how caffeine raises the cortisol, if the body receives too much caffeine and it can not meet energetic demands of improved metabolism, of course it will increase cortisol and adrenaline, because that’s how it provides the extra nutrients, from your muscles by destroying them and turning them into glucose, and from your fat tissue through lipolysis, which gets oxidized through beta oxidation and then kreb’s cycle and then oxidative phosphorilation. If you don’t react well to caffeine you are probably hypo thyroid and have poor liver function. Caffeine is very dopaminergic, It has been shown that administering dopamine receptor antagonists to people who take caffeine blocks all of it’s effects. Eventhough caffeine doesn’t directly bind to any of the so called “imaginary” receptors the pharmaceutical industry would like you to believe exist, it has dopaminergic effects. And since dopamine is antagonistic to serotonin, because dopamine and dopamine agonists inhibit the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase, Taking caffeine chronically will actually decrease your production of serotonin, and caffeine has also been shown to inhibit some of the inflammatory media, specifically tumor necrosis factor alpha and NFKb, nuclear factor Kappa B I think is the full name. Caffeine does a lot of good things in the body primarily by raising metabolism, but keep in mind if you are going to raise metabolism you are going to need to provide more resources for the body to be able to sustain it, and hypothyroid people and people with poor liver function, they usally fall into the same category have trouble handling caffeine for those reasons, poor liver function and inability to provide enough glycogen for caffeine to do it’s good

DR: Cortisol, Adrenaline, serotonin, estrogen, prolactin they tend to make people feel not so good what are some insights that you have, I know that I used to be almost a completely different person before I found Ray’s work, and I couldn’t explain what I was feeling, and I really appreciate him because I feel like he let me understand myself better and my emotions, and I know that even if I don’t feel good that I can do something to change the situation pretty quickly. The substances you mention like caffeine and we haven’t talked about aspirin, those things can really radically effect your mood I think.

G: Oh yeah I think there’s a study that I posted on the forum almost two years ago, it used an animal model, and it showed that aggression is primarily caused by lack of proper metabolism, by lack of oxidative phosphorilation. And I don’t know if they inhibited glycolysis or just stopped oxidative phosphorialtion, but they said that improper metabolism turned the animals into raging beasts within a matter of minutes, and they administered thyroid hormone, and they did use thyroid hormones, quickly reversed these effects. That shows the main thing, proper mood just like anything else can not be maintained in the body without the proper generation of energy. And some of the primary inhibitors of this production of energy our the endotoxin produced in your gut, and it’s associated cofactors, I don’t want to call them cofactors but they always go together, serotonin, prolactin, estrogen, cortisol, adrenaline and nitric oxide. Whenever one of these rises for whatever reason, it could be trauma, it could be stress it could be improper food, and there are a lot of things in the foods we eat, even in organic food that have been deemed to be carcinogenic. And I was shocked to find that Carageenan, an organic food, is actually banned in Europe as a known carcinogen. I don’t mean to bash the states, Europe has a lot of things that are banned here. Just because it is known that Europe has 600 million people, 600 million people believe that this thing is a carcinogen, should never be in food, and 300 million other people completely ignore it, and happily ingest it.

DR: You are saying that the government and the FDA doesn’t have our best interests in mind?

G: Well you have to ask citizens. I think the FDA does what it can in it’s environment. You just have to keep in mind this is not hidden information, I think 12 of the 15 members of the board of the FDA they are all former pharmaceutical executives. By the way the door is revolving, after they do a stint on the board of the FDA for two or three years, they go right back to a different pharmaceutical company at maybe twice the salary. They stay there a couple years and they go right back. It’s always under the umbrella of “I serve my interest by serving the public interest.” And in reality they only serve their own interests. So in the FDA there’s nothing inherently wrong with an agency who tries to maintain the quality and protect the safety of food and drugs. The problem is if you allow the agency to be run by the very people who need to be regulated, are we really crazy to expect anything else?

DR: I want to talk about talk about staying happy in a sometimes sad world, but I also want to talk about antibiotics because this is something similar to fructose malabsorption it’s this hugely controversial topic. I know I was a skeptic until not only understanding that ray’s carrot salad was exerting a mild antibiotic effect and I always warmed up after having the carrot salad and thought it was useful. Then after using penicillin BK, I noticed a lot of positives from using that, in addition to minacycline. So we are inundated with the view that you should never take antibiotics, do you think there is something wrong with view?

G: Basically if you are prescribed an antibiotic, I would say often but sometimes you would be prescribed an antibiotic knowing that it has been prescribed for less long than what is needed because there is fear that it will decimate your so called gut flora. I don’t know why people are so afraid of disturbing gut flora, I mean babies are born with largely sterile guts, and I think we can agree that babies have good health, and their guts get colonized quickly from the outside world. There are studies that show most serious issues, even in baby age happen after gut colonization. Also it helps to keep in mind that over 90% of your serotonin is produced in the gut, and it only happens through the interaction of bacteria with chromatase cells in the intestine. In the absence of bacteria in the colon or small intestine, small intestine bacteria is much worse it implies you have hemmerhoidal or some other kind of infection going on. Or you are really stressed out. Bottom line the less bacteria you have in the colon the less serotonin you will produce. The less endotoxin you will produce. Endotoxins and serotonin being the primary poisons of metabolism, liver health, mental health, the proper functioning of organs given that both substances contribute to fibrosis. It shows that you it’s probably good to keep your gut as sterile as possible, and I am sure you already know, there are studies that show the things that act like an antibiotic, such as activated charcoal, and insoluble fiber including bamboo shoots and carrot salad have been shown to decrease the population of bacteria in your colon and thus decrease endotoxin, which can be measured through prolactin in the blood, the levels of endotoxin and serotonin. It shows that keeping your gut flora in check is actually good for you. So taking an antibiotic achieves that and has even be done in animals, animals have had there guts made sterile due to long term administration of antibiotics. The same has been done to people with drug therapy because they had a condition which required, especially people with lyme disease, if these people go on a six month course of antibiotics, you will see how dramatic the improvement in health is, even if the symptoms of lyme are still there, these people get better sleep and more energy, which shows the antibiotic is doing something, I presume it is only the bacteria, so if it is reducing the bacteria count it is making you healthier. So then back to the probiotic, why would you add in bacteria regardless of what species it comes from? Whether it’s lactobacilli or some of the newer ones that promoted as treatments for IBS.

DR: So in addition to the carrot salad or bamboo shoots, some of the easiest things you can do, Vitamins A, D, e & K have a mild antibiotic effect.

G: Vitamin K, ray talked about this in one of his shows, Vitamin K is pretty much the same molecule as the tetracycline family of antibiotics, tetracycline, butrycycline, and aminocycline. It’s really the same, it’s a type of Quinone, which are powerful stimulators of oxidative metabolism, and it’s really not surprising that these antibiotics and including vitamin k work so well to improve your health. Not only do they decrease bacteria, they also stimulate proper kind of metabolism, they also inhibit glycolysis, and that’s one of the reason behind their recent success in various human cancers. Just because it’s an antibiotic, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have other beneficial effects. If you look at the molecule and really know how it works you can deduce a lot of the effects and experiment from there.

G: And not to mention, vitamin K would be good to take, just about anytime you took any antibiotics because the bacteria decreases. 

G: Exactly, I think Vitamin K will be good. Couple things it has been shown by research recently, conversion of K1, which is the primary type of K people get through food, it’s called phyloquinone you get it mostly from green leafy vegetables especially kale and spinach. That’s the major form that people get through their food, but it is not the active form. The other preferred form the body converts this into K4 Menatetranone, it’s a Vitamin K2 but there are several types of them and one is vitamin k2 with 4 chains, 4 additional rings in the molecule, known as menatetranone. It has been shown, that one time it was believed it was the gut bacteria that converted K1 into K4, recently it was shown that this conversion occurs in both people and animals with strictly sterile guts. You should take the vitamin, because it’s one of the best things you can get over the counter to improve your health.

DR: So in closing, could you offer Gyorgi’s tips for a good digestive health as well as keeping the mood balance and not being susceptible to anxiety and annoying people, increasing your stress tolerance basically.

G: I think that people can understand that mood effects digestion and digestion effects mood, but you have to start with digestion. What I would recommend is eating food that is as easily digestible as possible with the exception of bamboo shoots and carrot salad, and the charcoal. I know a lot of people recommend eating resistant starch, that’s probably the worst thing you can do. What you want to do is have food be absorbed as soon as possible, and by the time it reaches the colon there is as little nutrients available as possible. So there will be almost nothing left for the bacterias there to process and produce endotoxin. Eat digestible foods, Milk is a very good source for that one reason alone, I don’t know any people who can produce endotoxin from it, by the time it reaches the colon it’s almost fully metabolized. If you have to eat starch, which I strongly advise against, first because starch is extremely insulinogenic, and raises your insulin response a lot more than sugar does. If you have to eat starch make sure it is well cooked, preferably white rice Japanese style, white bread, if you have to eat any bread and I know ray recommends against it because of gluten. Potatoes. Anytime you eat some type of carbohydrate and it’s not well digested and it’s not well processed it will feed your bacteria. Addition to insulin response you will get an endotoxin response and a serotonin response. So eat easily digestible foods make sure most of the carbohydrates come from sugar and ripe fruits, and ripe fruits are preferable because they have the ketones, the ketoacids exactly. They are the precursors to proteins, so ketoacids are good. The byproduct of protein metabolism is ammonia, and in healthy people that gets converted to urea through the activity of the liver, and depends also on the levels of carbon dioxide in the blood. People with poor kidney or liver function there’s a build up of ammonia, it’s shown to happen in people to. I think I mentioned in one of our last shows there was a human trial with kelp. The medical trial of people in Japan, they were middle aged people in their forties, they looked like they were healthy, and they were given the amino acid L ornithine which is known to combine with ammonia and form urea, and these people that were given it, they woke up the next morning and felt almost as if they were 20 years younger. I mean ammonia is one of those things that tends to accumulate in the brain, and it kills brain cells like no other substance except cortisol and glutamate. The lower your ammonia the better your overall health will be. Bi polar disorder is now considered to be caused primarily by ammonia, and one of the Ledin’s main effects, ledin is the main drug for bipolar disorder, one of its main effect is combining, basically chelating ammonia so to speak, to make sure it can excrete. Back to my original point, it’s extremely important to eat a good amount of protein, because if you are not eating enough protein your body will give it to itself by destroying your muscles. The liver needs protein to function properly, so does your brain. And if you don’t get it from diet they will take it from muscle. And instead of eating protein one of the best things you can do is consume the ketoacids in potatos, especially potato juice, because potato juice get it by discarding the starch, or ripe fruits. Ray mentioned this, I can’t remember the study, but vegetables leaves and ripe fruits had a high concentration of these ketoacids. When you ingest these ketoacids they also combine with ammonia in the body, and everybody has excessive ammonia, you could probably not have too litte. Everybody has this extra ammonia, and the ketoacids combine with it and they form original amino acids, like the essential amino acids that you eat for your body to function. You are getting the best of both worlds you are eating high quality food which ends up producing the proteins that you need with virtually no wasted materials. At least as far as ammonia is concerned. So sufficient protein is very important. So if you have to eat fat, try to keep it as low as possible. I know that some people get this fat crazed feeling if they eat too low fat, but it has been shown that high fat diet even if it is mostly saturated, directly stimulates the production of serotonin in the gut. And this is mostly do to the fact that whenever you eat fat you will secrete a significant amount of bile acids, which are necessary to process the fat, and bile acids have been shown to trigger the production of serotonin in the gut, almost to the level that endotoxin will do. So try to eat low fat, if you eat fat of course always saturated fat. And worst case scenario olive oil. Just avoid pufa like the devil. There is nothing good about these fats, and the truth is coming out.

DR: Georgyi thanks for talking to us where can we find your work on the internet this weekend?

G: Mostly on the, my user name on the forum is haidut {hey doot} my email is [hidden from spambots], my skype is haidut3 and the best way to reach me is to send me an email or join the forum and join the discussion.

DR: That’s going to conclude this week’s episode. I’d like to thank Georgi again for talking to me today, along with my patrons for their continued support of the show and all the content I produce. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. That was easily one of my favorite episodes, and Gyorgi’s new microphone was a direct result of user feedback, so pat yourself on the back for making that happen. Next week we are going to talk about Nitric Oxide and Methylene Blue, and sometime this week we will have a bonus episode with Karen MCT later this week. Thank you so much for supporting this show and hope you fully enjoyed it, hit that like on youtube it always helps and your comments are fully appreciated. Thanks again for listening I will talk to you guys soon.