Generative Energy #31: Safe Supplements with Raymond Peat, PhD


01:10 - Ray Peat on Culture, Government, and Social Class ( Why Kerala, Grampa? (
06:16 - Danny’s evolving views on supplements
07:00 - “When your intestine is extremely sensitive, the excipients and contaminants in a pregnenolone tablet could cause bad symptoms; the only supplements that are very safe to take orally are aspirin, cascara, some kinds of thyroid, small amounts of penicillin (30 mg), cyproheptadine (one-half to one milligram), and progesterone. Vitamin A and DHEA on the skin are safe, but you should put the vitamin A on your lower legs, and wash your hands so that none of it gets on your lips.” RP (2016)
07:34 - ‘People’s symptoms improve when they stop taking their supplements’
10:17 - Can supplements be problematic due to endotoxin?
14:07 - Are the manufacturing methods to blame for the irritation?
17:12 - Contamination, fillers, pill casings, etc.
18:09 - What is Ray’s process for determining if something is safe or not?
22:13 - ‘Unnamed and unidentified nutrients in natural foods’
23:40 - "We had an abundance of mangoes, papayas, and bananas here, but the pride of the islands, the most delicious fruit known to men, cherimoya, was not in season." —Mark Twayne (1866)
24:22 - ‘Marmalade is like a super drug’
25:02 - ‘A general rule about drugs’
27:05 - Finasteride as an example of an unsafe medical drug
29:11 - Ray’s experiences with nutrient deficiencies
36:42 - Ray’s thoughts on the versatility of the body
38:06 - The transgenerational impact on a person’s nutritional requirements
38:50 - “Meat eaters would normally get 1/4 to 1/2 grain of thyroid in their food every day if the whole animal were used.” RP
40:12 - Ways to minimize confusion when using thyroid or other substances
42:04 - Ray is working on getting his books online
42:31 - Nutritional requirements for a healthy vs. hypothyroid person
43:56 - Do healthy people need more vitamin A?
45:30 - Is there any definitive symptoms of vitamin A and K deficiency?
47:09 - Using the fat soluble vitamins topically
49:26 - Does Ray use the oily vitamins on his skin every day?
49:48 - Ray’s thoughts on B. subtilis and B. licheniformis (Biosporin)
51:57 - Ray expands on the relationship between aspirin and vitamin K
54:06 - Do people tend to be vitamin K deficient?
55:09 - Can well-cooked mushrooms replace the daily carrot?
56:30 - If Ray could take any substance on a desert island what would it be?
57:29 - What is Ray working on?
57:54 - “The newsletter is available by email now, and it’s $28 US which can be paid through PayPal, at”

The Mysterious Conductor of the Hair Cycle Clock

The Mysterious Conductor of the Hair Cycle Clock

One of the oldest explanations for baldness in the Western world was the "exhaustion of nervous energy"—that is, the health and capability of the nervous system. In the 1881 book, American Nervousness, George W. Beard explains that baldness and many other problems increase at the expense of nervous energy due to the stress and strain of modern life.

Reversing Fibrosis in Male Pattern Baldness (Apigenin, Naringenin, Aspirin, and Gelatin)

Inflammation is an umbrella concept in pattern baldness that is given little attention in the mainstream. Polyunsaturated fats, mast cell migration and activation, prostaglandins, inflammatory cytokines, and the fibrotic environment these substances promote all appear to be involved in the progression of "the baldness field." Luckily, simple, safe, and available substances such as apigenin, naringenin, aspirin, and gelatin can help guard against the harmful effects of these inflammatory substances and in some cases help restore coherence to fibrotic tissues.

00:57 - Mitochondria, Oxidative Stress, and Fibrosis
03:03 - TGF-b1 and Fibrosis in The Bald Scalp
03:55 - Will a "Single Bullet" Approach Work?
04:49 - Fibrosis, Thyroid Function, Progesterone, and Helpful Foods
05:44 - Apigenin
06:44 - Naringenin
07:43 - Aspirin
08:57 - Gelatin


Generative Energy #30: What Keeps a Creative Person Going?


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01:09 - Danny’s thoughts on a purpose-driven life and meaningful work
02:22 - Should you wait until you’re better before being creative?
02:50 - “I was laying on the ground, maybe just four or five inches away and I was spreading the paint, mixing some different colours in. I was thinking to myself, ‘Man, what am I going to do now? Because this is one of the best, most fun things I’ve ever done.’” Taylor Phinney
04:59 - Creativity and the risk of being misunderstood
06:12 - Reinforcement of learned helplessness
07:12 - Danny’s many failings and mental anguish
08:33 - "People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities." Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments (1999)
13:58 - “If the path before you is clear, you're probably on someone else's.” Joseph Campbell
15:29 - Creating for yourself rather than others
17:41 - “It is the urge, which is evident in all organic and human life — to expand, extend, become autonomous, develop, mature — the tendency to express and activate all the capacities of the organism, to the extent that such activation enhances the organism or the self. This tendency may become deeply buried under layer after layer of encrusted psychological defenses; it maybe hidden behind elaborate facades which deny its existence; but it is my belief that it exists in every individual, and awaits only the proper conditions to be released and expressed.” Carl Rogers
18:38 - "The serial monogamies you mention are really important expressions of the rigidity that's the essence of the authoritarian culture. Just by putting them together you have illuminated them. In his later years Wilhelm Reich worried about how hard adults were to heal emotionally, but I think Freudianism just distracted him from what he probably knew as a communist, that people won't choose to change as long as there are no viable alternatives. " Ray Peat
20:25 - “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Buckminster Fuller
23:43 - “To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.” Aristotle
24:43 - You don’t care what people think? Prove it!
28:13 - The journey of creativity would be cheap without risk
30:36 - "Everyday, I walk myself into a state of well-being and walk away from every illness. I have walked myself into my best thoughts, and I know of no thought so burdensome that one cannot walk away from it. But by sitting still, and the more one sits still, the closer one comes to feeling ill. Thus if one just keeps on walking, everything will be all right.” Kierkegaard
33:07 - "You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough." William Blake
33:59 - Danny’s experience with health authorities
34:43 - Celebrating “the expert”
36:36 - Choice and creativity
39:35 - Free speech as a creative act
40:04 - Why did Danny move to Mexico?

The Misunderstood Role of DHT in Male Pattern Baldness

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01:59 - Testosterone, 5-Alpha Reductase, and DHT in Normal Hair Growth
04:20 - The Relationship Between Serum Androgens and Baldness
06:17 - The Relationship Between 5-Alpha Reductase and Androgens in The Balding Scalp
12:53 - Summary

Generative Energy #29: How to Burn Fat on a Keto Diet (And Why You Shouldn’t)


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03:39 - Kyle Mamounis and Danny Roddy meet at AHS 2011
05:01 - Kyle’s origin story
06:41 - What is Kyle studying?
08:35 - Details on Kyle’s AHS 2016 talk
10:45 - Injecting CO2 and prostaglandins into ketosis
11:56 - Lactic acid in diabetes
13:24 - Glycolysis and mitochondrial respiration
14:30 - Is fat a superior fuel compared to glucose?
17:09 - The low carb fantasy view of metabolic stress
18:53 - Low carb people and “autoimmunity” issues
20:07 - Danny’s thoughts on “adrenal fatigue”
22:11 - What Kyle is researching
24:45 - Where do the genes fit in?
26:48 - The Randle effect as an “on” “off” switch for glucose metabolism
28:00 - Hepatic glycogen and the production of active thyroid hormone
30:20 - Turning down the generation of CO2 with ketosis
35:29 - Omega-3’s and mitochondrial respiration
38:18 - Thoughts on electrons and respiration
40:18 - Kyle’s future plans for AHS
43:08 - The “benefits” of ketosis — decreased endotoxin
47:24 - Products and objective science in nutrition
49:58 - How do you lose fat without entering ketosis?
51:26 - Danny was fatty on zero-carb
55:03 - Is it good to have a slow metabolism?
56:59 - Kyle’s final thoughts
57:45 - Kyle’s blog and where you can find him

Specialized Nutrition for Male Pattern Baldness

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Carbon Dioxide: The "Cure" for Male Pattern Baldness?

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Since producing 'Explaining The "Horseshoe" Shape of Male Pattern Baldness' I've been receiving a lot of questions about scalp massage and microneedling as potential therapies to increase blood flow and the delivery of oxygen and nutrients to balding hair follicles. While I don't think a relaxing massage would hurt, I'm extremely skeptical of microneedling as it seems to fall under the cut, burn, poison model of modern medicine. This video is an attempt at shifting the conversation away from methods that are as old as baldness itself, and towards a bioenergetic view of pattern hair loss with an emphasis on carbon dioxide.

The "Personality" of Male Pattern Baldness (Learned Helplessness)

“In many [pattern baldness patients], we encountered various types of ‘fixed smiles,’ and in a few, a rather striking, characteristic expression best described as a ‘toothy smile.’ Such rigid facial patterns are thought to reflect, psychologically speaking, defensive attitudes. Wilhelm Reich in his book, ‘Character Analysis,’ pointed out what he called ‘muscular armor’ as a frequently observed somatic reflection of ‘character armor.’ ‘Character armor’ refers to the psychologic defenses of a neurotic personality which serve as protection from feelings of insecurity and anxiety.”[1]

“Adaptive hormones can cause mental changes in man. Many patients who take ACTH or COL first develop a sense of extraordinary wellbeing and buoyancy, with excitement and insomnia; this is sometimes followed by a depression which may go so far as to create suicidal tendencies.”[2]

“Glucocorticoids exert early influences on the brain that tend to elevate mood and increase the sense of ‘well-being.’ Larger amounts can bring on temporary euphoria. However, the secondary effects include psychic depression. Patients with chronically elevated levels tend to have mood swings. They have been known to display bizarre behavior and to suffer hallucinations.”[3]

“Hyperprolactinemic patients were significantly more hostile, depressed, and anxious and had more feelings of inadequacy than family practice patients and non patient employees. The authors recommend measuring the serum prolactin levels of women with depression, hostility, anxiety, and symptoms or signs suggestive of hyperprolactinemia.”[4]

“Negative affectivity is a broad personality trait that refers to the stable tendency to experience negative emotions. Individuals who are high in negative affectivity are more likely to report negative affective mood states across time and regardless of the situation.”[5]

“High-negative affectivity individuals not only experience more feelings of dysphoria and tension, but have a negative view of self, report more somatic symptoms, and have an attention bias towards adverse stimuli. Overall, they seem to scan the world for signs of impending trouble…”[6]

“A common denominator among these studies documenting increased cortisol to laboratory challenges appears to be an increase in negative affectivity. The relationship between negative affectivity and cortisol activity has been well documented in several studies using structured laboratory stressors, such as public speaking and mental arithmetic and aversive stimulation as well as in the psychiatric literature relating to alterations in cortisol in depressed patients.”[7]

“Closely related to this openness to inner and outer experience in general is an openness to and an acceptance of other individuals. As a client moves toward being able to accept his own experience, he also moves toward the acceptance of the experience of others. He values and appreciates both his own experience and that of others for what it is. To quote Maslow again regarding his self-actualizing individuals: ‘One does not complain about water because it is wet, nor about rocks because they are hard… As the child looks out upon the world with wide, uncritical and innocent eyes, simply noting and observing what is the case, without either arguing the matter or demanding that it be otherwise, so does the self-actualizing person look upon human nature both in himself and in others.’ This acceptant attitude toward that which exists, I find developing in clients in therapy.”[8]  

“Making an effort to learn how to use techniques of food, hormones, light, activity, etc., is similar to the effort needed to work with a psychologist, and the effort itself is part of the therapy…”[9]

1. A theory of the pathogenesis of ordinary human baldness (1950)
2. The Story of Adaptation Syndrome (1952)
3. Endocrine Physiology (1985)
4. Hyperprolactinemia, distress, and hostility (1984)
5. Encyclopedia of Behavioral Medicine Negative Affectivity (2013)
6. Type D personality: A potential risk factor refined (2000)
7. Cortisol fluctuates with increases and decreases in negative affect (1999)
8. Carl Rogers on Abraham Maslow in the book, On Becoming a Person (1961)
9. Raymond Peat (2014)

Explaining The "Horseshoe" Shape of Male Pattern Baldness

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“The role of mast cells in male-pattern baldness is unknown, but the large numbers often present is a striking feature.”[1] 

"We postulate that because of the underlying anatomy, there is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness and that is associated with local tissue hypoxia in those regions. The vascular supply of the scalp is derived from branches of the internal carotid artery and branches of the external carotid artery. The frontal region of the scalp, which loses hair in male pattern baldness, is supplied by the supraorbital and the supratrochlear arteries. These are relatively small branches of the internal carotid artery system. The temporal [sides] and occipital [back of head] regions of the scalp, which do not lose hair in male pattern baldness, are supplied by larger branches of the external carotid artery. Specifically, these are the superficial temporal, posterior auricular, and occipital arteries. Further, the frontal and vertex regions of the scalp overlie the galea aponeurotica, which is relatively avascular. The temporal and occipital regions of the scalp overlie the temporalis and occipitalis muscles, which provide a rich network of musculocutaneous perforator blood vessels. These anatomic differences contribute to the tenuous nature of the dermal blood supply to the frontal and crown regions of the scalp."[2]

"We hypothesized that this difference in pattern of prostaglandin D-synthase expression may constitute a developmental pattern inherent to normal as well as alopecic scalp skin, thus defining a ‘field’ vulnerable to acquired hair loss." “These data indicate that scalp is spatially programmed via mast cell prostaglandin D-synthase distribution in a manner reminiscent of the pattern seen in androgenetic alopecia.” "In a prior study of male pattern alopecia, increased numbers of mast cells have been seen in balding vertices compared to non-balding occipital scalp and, in fact, this pattern was also observed in five control subjects studied, though there were greater numbers of mast cells in the patients with alopecia.” "In the 1990’s mast cells were found to be actively degranulating in the inflammatory infiltrates of scalp with male pattern alopecia and this was proposed to contribute to perifollicular fibrosis.”[3] 

"Mast cells express the high-affinity estrogen receptor and studies have shown that estrogens augment their activities: in the presence of high levels of estrogens, mast cell responses to compound 48/80 are increased, leading to more substantial degranulation and release of histamine and serotonin.” "Progesterone is necessary for the maintenance of pregnancy and plays a key role in maintaining cervical integrity prior to labour induction. Progesterone can prevent the migration of mast cells in response to chemokines and down-regulate surface chemokine receptor expression. In addition, mast cell function can be altered by the presence of high concentrations of progesterone. For example, progesterone inhibits the secretion of histamine from mast cells. Notably, these observations would suggest that mast cells present within the uterus during pregnancy are quiescent and inhibited by high levels of progesterone, and also that recruitment of mast cell progenitors from the circulation may be limited.” "At present the prevalence of allergies, including allergic rhinitis, hayfever, eczema, food allergies and urticaria, is rising." [4]

"Results from this study provide the first evidence of a unique regulatory mechanism by which CO2 inhibits mast cell degranulation and histamine release by repressing stimulated increases in intracellular calcium. Thus, our data provide a plausible explanation for the reported therapeutic benefit of noninhaled intranasal delivery of 100% CO2 to treat allergic rhinitis." [5]

1. Male pattern alopecia a histopathologic and histochemical study (1975) 
2. Transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp in male pattern baldness: a new piece to the puzzle (1996)
3. A prostaglandin D-synthase-positive mast cell gradient characterizes scalp patterning (2014) 
4. The role of mast cells and their mediators in reproduction, pregnancy and labour (2010) 
5. Treatment of mast cells with carbon dioxide suppresses degranulation via a novel mechanism involving repression of increased intracellular calcium levels (2011)

Male Pattern Baldness: Hypothyroidism in Disguise?

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Do The "Essential Fatty Acids" Cause Pattern Hair Loss?

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“All members of this group [prostaglandins] are synthesized from ‘polyunsaturated’ fatty acids that must be supplied by the diet. From a quantitative standpoint, arachidonic acid is the major precursor.” “Meats and peanuts contain small amounts [of arachidonic acid], but the liver forms most of it from linoleic acid. Arachidonic acid is the precursor of the prostaglandins with two double bonds, and of the several other biologically potent substances."[1] 

"These results define PGD2 as an inhibitor of hair growth in male-pattern baldness and suggest the PGD2-GPR44 pathway as a potential target for treatment.”[2] 

"EFA deficiency has been shown to exert an anti­inflammatory effect."[3] 

"In summary, the anti-inflammatory effect of EFA deficiency was more marked that that of dietary (n-3) fatty acid supplementation in acute inflammation."[4]

1. Endocrine Physiology by Constance R. Martin (1985)
2. Prostaglandin d2 inhibits hair growth and is elevated in bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia (2012)
3. Essential fatty acid deficiency: a new look at an old problem (1986)
4. Manipulation of the acute inflammatory response by dietary polyunsaturated fatty acid modulation (1990)

Higher Prolactin in Pattern Baldness?

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"A conclusion has been made that one of the most important mechanisms of the adaptive effect of prolactin is its ability to suppress thyroid function, thus decreasing the metabolism level, which results in reduction of oxygen consumption…"[1]

"Subsequent actions of prolactin may involve the following: a) an increased intracellular concentration of potassium and a reduced level of sodium, b) an increased level of cGMP and a reduced level of cAMP, c) an enhanced rate of prostaglandin biosynthesis mediated by a stimulation of phospholipase A2 activity, and d) a stimulation of polyamine synthesis."[2]

"...serum prolactin concentrations reflect endogenous serotonin..." "...aromatase activity correlated significantly with prolactin..."[3]
"After glucose load the hyperprolactinaemic patients showed a decrease in glucose tolerance and a hyperinsulinaemia." "These findings suggest a diabetogenic effect of prolactin."[4]

"These observations indicate that cutaneous symptoms such as seborrhea, acne, hypertrichosis/hirsutism, alopecia may evidently occur in hyperprolactinemia, representing or mimicking androgen-induced skin symptoms. In such cases, therefore, evaluation of prolactin levels together with androgen blood levels and thyroid gland function tests should be performed to exclude underlying endocrinopathy."[5]

1. Metabolism of thyroid gland cells as affected by prolactin and emotional-physical stress (1991)
2. Mechanism of prolactin action (1980)
3. Effects of aromatase inhibition and androgen activity on serotonin and behavior in male macaques (2013)
4. Prolactin: a diabetogenic hormone (1977)
5. Disorder of hair growth in hyperprolactinemia (1988)

Generative Energy #28: Talking with Ray Peat: The Origins of Authoritarianism


I’m incredibly excited to share my third interview with Ray about the origins of authoritarianism. The conversation covers a wide range of topics including Ray’s philosophical influences, former CIA director Allen Dulles, Wilhelm Reich, authoritarianism as a sickness, Nicole Foss’s idea of degrowth, and Ray’s thoughts on an “optimal” society. The conversation was originally recorded on June 24th, 2016. Special thanks to Ray for providing me with his time and my Patrons for making this content possible.

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• Song: Astronomyy - Nothin On My Mind

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order, and in the assertion that, without authority, there could not be worse violence than that of authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that Anarchy can be instituted by a revolution. "To establish Anarchy." "Anarchy will be instituted." But it will be instituted only by there being more and more people who do not require protection from governmental power, and by there being more and more people who will be ashamed of applying this power.” — Leo Tolstoy (1899)
“‘When ignorance reigns in society and disorder in the minds of men, laws are multiplied, legislation is expected to do everything, and each fresh law being a fresh miscalculation, men are continually led to demand form it what can proceed only from themselves, from their own education and their own morality.’ It is no revolutionist who says this, nor even a reformer. It is the jurist, Dalloy, author of the Collection of French law known as ‘Repertoire de la Legislation.’ And yet, though these lines were written by a man who was himself a maker and admirer of law, they perfectly represent the abnormal condition of our society. 
In existing States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it. If the road between two villages is impassable, the peasant says: -‘There should be a law about parish roads.’ If a park-keeper takes advantage of the want of spirit in those who follow him with servile observance and insults one of them, the insulted man says: -- ‘There should be a law to enjoin more politeness upon park-keepers.’ If there is stagnation in agriculture or commerce, the husbandman, cattle-breeder, or corn speculator argues, ‘It is protective legislation that we require.” Down to the old clothesman there is not one who does not demand a law to protect his own little trade. If the employer lowers wages or increases the hours of labour, the politician in embryo exclaims, “We must have a law to put all that to rights,’ instead of telling the workers that there are other, and much more effectual means of settling these things straight; namely, recovering from the employer the wealth of which he has been despoiling the workmen for generations. In short, a law everywhere and for everything! A law about fashions, a law about mad dogs, a law about virtue, a law to put a stop to all the vices and all the evils which result from human indolence and cowardice.” — Peter Kropotkin (1886)
“Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed, and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds.” “Dogmatism is by far the best fall-back defense, the most impregnable castle, that ignorance can find. It’s also a dead give-away that the person doesn’t know why he believes what he believes.” — Bob Altemeyer (2006)

01:10 - Chatting about Ray’s 2003 Newsletter
01:59 - Defining authoritarianism and Ray’s experience
09:45 - Where did authoritarianism originate from? (Parmenides, Zeno, Plato, Aristotle, and Heraclitus)
12:41 - “The principle of forgiveness was presented as the appropriate response to a world which is always new. The desire for vengeance comes from a delusive commitment to the world of memory. Virginity is constantly renewed in the world of imaginative life. While Blake said that you can’t forgive someone until they stop hurting you, the desire to be forgiven indicates that there is an opportunity to resolve the problem.” (
16:41 - “In 1933 Reich published The Mass Psychology of Fascism, and the next year Freud expelled him from psychoanalysis; that was the year that Andre Breton excommunicated Dali from surrealism. Both Reich and Dali had important (but dangerous) insights into the effects of the authoritarian culture on consciousness—the destruction of reality by the imposition of an “essentialist” attitude. Dali’s Persistence of Memory, 1931, described the fluidity of reality and consciousness. Later, Dali aligned himself with the fascist side, and his 1954 Decomposition of the Persistence of Memory shows the quantized consciousness. Starting in 1945, the fascist culture blossomed in the US, so people who speak English now have constant contact with the dead essences, and very little incentive to evaluate them. Business/government marketing techniques adjust the meaning-units periodically, so that they are always available to provide the needed frame for the discourse of the moment. A lot of work goes into it.” —Raymond Peat
16:54 - The Dulles brothers (The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbott)
18:04 - Is authoritarianism a disease?
20:38 - Is the environment bracketing our current progress?
21:08 - Nicole Foss on degrowth (
23:37 - Increasing the people’s knowledge, ability and power
24:31 - Food as way to heighten someone’s awareness
26:19 - The food pyramid as a form of oppression
27:44 - America’s authoritarianism vs. other places
31:29 - “In a speech before the National Alumni Conference at Princeton University on April 10, 1953, newly appointed CIA director Allen Dulles lectured his audience on ‘how sinister the battle for men's minds had become in Soviet hands.’ The human mind, Dulles warned, was a ‘malleable tool,’ and the Red Menace had secretly developed ‘brain perversion techniques.’ Some of these methods were ‘so subtle and so abhorrent to our way of life that we have recoiled from facing up to them.’ Dulles continued, ‘The minds of selected individuals who are subjected to such treatment are deprived of the ability to state their own thoughts. Parrot-like, the individuals so conditioned can merely repeat the thoughts which have been implanted in their minds by suggestion from outside. In effect the brain becomes a phonograph playing a disc put on its spindle by an outside genius over which it has no control.’ Three days after delivering this address Dulles authorized Operation MK-ULTRA, the ClA's major drug and mind control program during the Cold War.” — Acid Dreams (1985)
32:26 - What impact would you like to see your research make on society? Reaching the largest amount of people? or a certain type of person? Or are you completely detached from the outcome? “I’d like to see it lead to the disestablishment of medicine. The same general outcomes Ivan Illich worked for.” —RP (
33:20 - Does Ray think an “optimal” society should include medicine or government?
34:59 - David Alfaro Siqueiros (

Generative Energy #27: On The Back of a Tiger Interview #2


“Making an effort to learn how to use techniques of food, hormones, light, activity, etc., is similar to the effort needed to work with a psychologist, and the effort itself is part of the therapy—the particular orientation of the psychotherapist isn’t what’s therapeutic, it’s the ability to participate in meaningful interactions, that is, the ability to provide a situation in which the person can practice being human. When people start thinking about the things in their life that can be changed, they are exercising aspects of their organism that had been atrophied by being in an authoritarian culture. Authoritarians talk about protocols, but the only valid ‘protocol’ would be something like ‘perceive, think, act.’” —Raymond Peat, PhD

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01:17 - Details on the successful Kickstarter
02:04 - A heartened Brad and Jeremy
03:39 - What have you guys been up for the last year?
05:30 - Has the film changed at all?
07:16 - Where are you guys in the filmmaking process?
08:26 - Jeremy and Brad asking big questions
10:25 - Warming up the audience to the cast of Mavericks
11:40 - Uncut audio from the interviews
12:28 - Problems in the establishment
13:31 - Animations and filming experiments
15:16 - Issues in biology and medicine
16:15 - How the script is being written
17:49 - Will consciousness be explored in the film?
18:54 - Will cosmology be explored in the film?
19:07 - How do you empower people without giving recommendations?
20:54 - Will stress and energy be explored in the film?
23:38 - Danny doesn’t understand epigenetics
24:40 - Eugenics is still part of science culture
26:25 - Will politics be explored in the film?
27:48 - Danny thinks the ‘serotonin-makes-you-feel-good’ idea is crumbling
28:34 - Has Brad and Jeremy’s views changed at all since filming the movie?
31:32 - Danny thinks leaving your comfort zone can increase self-awareness
33:01 - ‘Never be in a rush to do anything’
33:25 - Will the film be accessible to lay people?
34:03 - How are Brad and Jeremy stringing the narrative between all the subjects?
34:48 - The passing of Mae-Wan Ho
35:31 - Respecting the life’s work of some of the subjects
35:05 - Keeping up to date with On The Back of a Tiger
40:04 - Next week’s episode with Ray

Generative Energy #26: Talking with Ray Peat: CO2, NAD+/NADH, Antibiotics, Coffee, and More


“Since the contextuality of communication is always in the foreground when I talk or write, you know that someone is confusing me with an authority when they talk about my ‘protocol’ for something. Context is everything, and it’s individual and empirical.” —Raymond Peat, PhD

“Making an effort to learn how to use techniques of food, hormones, light, activity, etc., is similar to the effort needed to work with a psychologist, and the effort itself is part of the therapy—the particular orientation of the psychotherapist isn’t what’s therapeutic, it’s the ability to participate in meaningful interactions, that is, the ability to provide a situation in which the person can practice being human. When people start thinking about the things in their life that can be changed, they are exercising aspects of their organism that had been atrophied by being in an authoritarian culture. Authoritarians talk about protocols, but the only valid ‘protocol’ would be something like ‘perceive, think, act.’” —Raymond Peat, PhD

01:10 - Show outline
01:40 - The passing of Mae-Wan Ho
03:44 - The organisms as a liquid crystalline
04:55 - Magneto biology
06:59 - Ray’s discovery of Vladimir Vernadsky
09:07 - Background on Ray’s books
10:36 - When Ray became more interested in carbon dioxide
15:10 - Carbon dioxide and evolution
17:11 - Ketosis, Carbon Dioxide, and NAD+/NADH
21:24 - The ketone body ratio and electrode physiology
33:35 - Why wasn’t Albert Szent-Györgyi’s work more accepted?
34:29 - “Old” and “new” hormones and signaling substances
38:53 - The “optimal” metabolic state
40:26 - Ray’s thoughts on antibiotics
43:25 - Ray’s thoughts on thyroid brands
44:52 - Ray’s thoughts on synthetic vs. desiccated
45:07 - How Ray makes his coffee
46:45 - The quality of commercial supplements
48:23 - Ray’s upcoming newsletter

(Transcribed and verified by Marteagal and Burtlancast of The Ray Peat Forum}

DR: Hello everybody. Today I’m talking with painter-philosopher-biologist Raymond Peat. We will talk about the passing of Mae-Wan Ho, Vladimir Vernadsky, carbon dioxide, the NAD+/NADH ratio, new and old hormones, thyroid brands, how Ray makes his coffee, and so much more. As always, please do your own research and come to your own conclusions: in the spirit of William Blake, “The true method of knowledge is experiment”.
Ray, I thought we could start off by talking about Mae-Wan Ho.

RP: Oh. I just ran across her review of “The rainbow and the worm”, about 15 years ago, I guess, whenever it came out.

DR: And did you think of her as an ally in your fight against mainstream science?

RP: Oh sure. That “coherence” thing is where I’ve been going since the sixties, anyway.

DR: Have you ever seen photos like she has in her book? When you see them, you immediately think there’s more to the picture than the kind of materialist science we’ve been sold.

RP: Yea. I think it was about 1955, when I was in Mexico first, the square in Páatzcuaro, people had laid out the different fish they had caught. And two different kinds of them were transparent, sort of like green jello; I ate them; they called them white fish. So I’ve had some delicious fried, transparent fish that were just like ordinary white fish when they were cooked, opaque and bones, everything. But I was intrigued by how something with bones and blood and guts and everything hard, all of the standard organs, how it could be perfectly transparent when it was uncooked. And that made me think about the light beam, sort of carried in channels to bypass the bones, effectively making bones, and liver, and everything disappear.

DR: And that can only happen if the organism was like a liquid crystalline, like she talks about, and you also mention?

RP: Well, that got me interested in how water works all by itself. In around the same time I was interested in electrical fields in organisms and water. And the idea of light conductivity in special ways in cytoplasm connected to the idea that organisms are sensitive not only to electrical currents and fields, but to magnetic fields, because we have our own electrical currents inside. And so, a moving charge is sensitive to the magnetic environment. And the first persons researched that I studied in any depth was Yuri Kholodov. And I went to Moscow in 68 to talk to him about his bio-magnetics, or magneto biology approach. And through him, I then got interested in Madeleine Barnothy, and her work on magneto biology. She and her husband applied good physics to study the dowsing phenomenon, and found that organisms could detect extremely weak magnetic fields, for example, caused just by water oozing underground; slow movement of slightly ionized water is enough for an organism like a person to detect. And trying to understand how that works. Then I found Solko Tromp’s book. “Psychical physics” was the title of that, published in 1949. And he reviewed the old literature on liquid crystals and argued that the cytoplasm is like liquid crystals. And you know how, [in] the computer monitors, the screen operates on [the] principle that a weak electrical field will re-order the liquid crystals? The biology behind that [existed] before the industry’s technology application of it. [Tromp] used that as the argument to explain the extreme sensitivity to electrical fields and magnetic fields.

DR: Was that post- your discovery of Vernadsky, or pre-? Were you interested in that magnetic biology because of your understanding of ...

RP: No, no, I’ve found Vernadsky after that.

DR: After. And how did that tie in perfectly with what you were interested in?

RP: Vernadsky?

DR: Yeah.

RP: Oh, sure, he just gave the bigger picture of how energy guides these intricate structures in the cells of organisms. He used Le Chatelier's principle to show that when you disturb a system, it finds a new equilibrium by adjusting whatever needs adjusting. Just by thinking, in that context, that the organism is responding to the available energy (with the sun or volcanic chemical energy as the source), he reasoned - with that simple physical-chemical principle - that the complexity and the intensity of energy flow would both tend towards a maximum. And so, he said that big trees develop under big energy flows; big-brained mammals develop when there's an opportunity for high energy flow.

DR: When you were talking about magnetism, that reminded me of when you said you thought that he was a − or did he call himself a "geo-cosmic realist"?

RP: Um, yeah, he had various composite names for what he was doing.

DR: That's a pretty cool title.

RP: Yeah, Solco Tromp called himself, I think, a "bio-geo-meteorologist".

DR: Ha ha. That sideways pretty well into the next issue. Last time we talked, we covered a lot of ground on pre-nutrition for women, and then post-nutrition for women, which - I might have got it wrong - but that was in 1975?

RP: From 1973 to 1975, I guess.

DR: And then, you re-issued it in 1993, and you wrote "Generative Energy" in 1994.

RP: Well, yeah; actually, I was writing on "Generative Energy" throughout the eighties; it accumulated. "Mind and Tissue" was the first one I wrote actually. And I gave it to a flaky publisher who lost all the references. And I think the chapter on Pavlov was lost too, so I had to rewrite that; but never bothered to fix the missing references, because the books were all in different libraries.

DR: We’ve discussed some of the motivations behind "Nutrition for Women"; was "Mind and tissue" what you were truly interested in at the time, versus some of the things ...

RP: Yep, that was my intense interest. And the "Nutrition for Women" was just practical things that some women friends told me would make a useful compilation.

DR: And, then, do you think "Generative Energy" was kind of a marriage of those two things, or not?

RP: Well, yea, I think it was probably Vernadsky that was the turner for putting those together.

DR: I'm interested in how − because I’ve searched your older work for, like, carbon dioxide − and it seems although you're constantly talking about thyroid and the importance of thyroid, it seems that (and I could be wrong) that emphasis on carbon dioxide might be a little less a couple of decades ago, versus more now? And so, I'm curious if things shifted? Or that you became more interested in carbon dioxide as time went on, maybe like in the early 2000’s?

RP: It was sometimes in the late 90s, I think it was.

DR: And what spurred that interest?

RP: I think, people asking me about Buteyko. I had read Buteyko's − some of his articles in 1969 or so - but I just didn't really think very much of it, except that it seemed valid. And, I was interested at that time in several gases; the way nitrogen fixation (by chickens, and mammals, and people) from the atmosphere was what got me interested in Buteyko. The Russians were using nitrogen in their space vehicles, with oxygen, where the Americans were using helium. And there were some publications arguing that you should always breathe some helium with your oxygen, because of the fact that it can be fixed. Hemoglobin is apparently a nitrogen fixing molecule in birds and mammals, as well as bacteria. And thinking about how the gases are metabolized…for example, how does a fish keep it’s swim bladder inflated…the idea of, in effect, pumping gases, or pumping gases in or out…and the idea of the negative space between the lungs and the pleural membrane (there is, in effect, a vacuum there). The membranes are tightly in contact; but if you get a leak, your lungs collapses. If you punch a hole in the lung, the air goes out into that space in the lung; the lung shrivels up. And so, something is pumping all of the gas, absolutely all of the gas, out of that space between your chest and the lungs. That idea of creating a vacuum by somehow pulling the oxygen and nitrogen (most of the air volume is nitrogen)…so it’s easy to see that you can subtract the oxygen from that space; but that would leave nitrogen bubbles around your lungs. So, something apparently is pulling the nitrogen out of that space constantly. And none of my professors would even talk about that issue. Anyway, that was me thinking about the metabolism of all of the gases. And the idea that you can excrete salts: I was worried about the turtles that have salt glands on their nose or eyes to excrete excess sodium. And the membrane pump people were saying: “See, that proves that there are these marvelous little pumps that shove the ions out of the cells”. So, on investigating that, I saw that there’s carbonic anhydrase in there, and that just by changing the association of carbon dioxide with water, you affect its solubility. If the acid moves out of the cell, to maintain electric neutrality it takes a positively charged ion with it. So, every time your carbonic acid leaves the cell, so does some sodium. And, then, the carbonic anhydrase, if needed, can liberate the carbon dioxide as gas, leaving just the sodium, which usually becomes sodium chloride (or whatever other ions are available).

DR: You’ve said that carbon dioxide is the context for all life processes (I think it was in your article “Mitochondria and mortality”). You’ve said “Increasing of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere can cause the spontaneous creation of mitochondria”. Do you think that an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is a pivotal thing for higher evolution?

RP: Well, at the time, [in] the carboniferous [era], geologically, the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was really intense for those periods, something like 12% . And that really stimulated a great abundance of life. The way I see the ATP synthesis, I don’t think it’s anything fancier than the fact that if you write out the equation, you’ll see H2O and phosphate becoming ATP, rather than the ATP and water becoming phosphate. If you subtract water from the equation, the phosphate turns into ATP. I don’t think I’ve said that right. But anyway, if you look at the equation, and subtract water, it gives you ATP. And, since carbonic anhydrase is in the mitochondrion, closely associated with the formation of ATP, I think its purpose there is partly to turn the newly formed carbon dioxide into carbonic acid, which then leaves, taking away water, and creating ATP by dehydrating the phosphates.

DR: A lot of people are talking about KETOGENESIS, KETOSIS, diets, and things like that. You have mentioned that carbon dioxide stimulated NADH oxidase. And that, besides supporting mitochondrial respiration in general, it would support the NAD+/NADH ratio?

RP: Yea. I think it functions as in the Gilbert Ling’s sense: an adsorbent that pulls electrons out of the system and makes the proteins more actively acidic. I think it has that effect all throughout the cell. And one of the effects of that is to let the cell release any excess waters. It has an anti-swelling effect. And the retraction of the electrons by that cardinal adsorbent action on the proteins shifts the whole electronic state of the cell, making electrons scarcer. And that ends up shifting the ratio between NAD+ and NADH towards the oxidized NAD+ side. While I was thinking about these processes of electrons in the cell after reading Gilbert Ling, then I’ve read some Efraim Racker and Albert Szent-Györgyi talking about electrons in cells. One of Györgyi’s books was called “Bioelectronics”. He was trying to account for the electronic behavior of cells. And Efraim Racker claimed the phrase “Nothing dehydrogenase”. And Szent-Györgyi, working in England in the 1920’s, studied related things; that there seems to be electrons , or the equivalent of !!! hydrogens !!!, from unidentified sources in living cells. Efraim Racker removed all of the known fuel sources from cells. But his indicators of reductants kept getting reduced. And so, he said that dehydrogenases were causing these chemicals to be reduced, but without a known source. It seemed to be an endless supply of electrons; so he called them the “nothing dehydrogenases”. And Szent-Györgyi theorized that these were some of the mobile electrons in the cytoplasmic protein-lipid systems and nucleic acid systems. With some of his associates [which] were showing semi-conductive properties for both nucleic acids and proteins, based on this mobility of electrons.

DR: Normally, proteins, fats and carbohydrates are the substrates for the electron flow. And you’re saying that because the electrons were in the cell without any substrates, that led to Szent-Györgyi thinking that there was an electro-conductivity to the cell, that wasn’t previously thought before?

RP: Yea. That there might be proteins of the cell [which] might be catching electrons from the environment. And in the last 15 years, people are now talking about the trans-plasma membrane oxidases. Many people are experimenting with these indicators of dehydrogenase activity; they turn red or purple when they get reduced. And using chemicals that don’t enter cells (because they’re strongly electrically negatively charged), they show that oxygen is removing electrons from the cell, oxidizing NADH to NAD+, taking electrons out and changing color without entering the cell. So, they are showing that cells don’t need mitochondria for oxidative metabolism. It can happen right at the surface of the cell. Someone designed cells lacking the genes necessary to make mitochondria, and still the cell respired!

DR: Oh, that's really interesting. Well, in your "Receptors, fields, and therapies" 2014 newsletter, I wanted to talk about the ketone body ratio. And I’ve just realized that some people think that NADH should be increased to NAD+. And so, do you think that's where the confusion about the ketone body ratio is? For example, I think, in “ Ketoacids? Good medicine?” by Veech− he's obviously a pretty smart guy − he says beta-hydroxybutyrate as a substrate increases NADH, relative to NAD+.

RP: Umm, yah, that's where I absolutely disagree. And it involves everything, bioelectronics and electrophysiology, and everything. But I think Gilbert Ling might be the only person who agrees with me on this. Oh, and Robert Becker's "[The] Body Electric": [I’m] absolutely in agreement with him. But Mae-Wan Ho, in her article "Cancer as a redox disease" makes the common mistake of seeing cancer as not having enough electrons. For I think that's its essential problem: It has too many electrons in the form of too much NADH, and all of the pairs of redox (like too much of lactic acid and not enough pyruvic acid). Everything that is in balance is shifted in cancer heavily towards the lactic acid side. And the hydroxybutyric acid is just one of those redox couples that can, if you get too much of it, shift you in the direction of cancer. One of the experiments that Mae-Wan Ho's article "Cancer as a redox disease" cited [was] a study in which the charge on a tumor was reversed [by] applying, I think…she cited this article saying that they regressed the cancer by applying a negative field. Or, it was measured as having a positive charge, rather than a negative charge. Robert Becker, and my own measurements (and many other’s peoples) see a tumor or a cancer as an injury and inflammation. And the traditional language for this kind of electric charge is called the "injury potential". If you cut your skin, or any tissue that is damaged, it is increasing inflammation, and lactic acid, and so on. There's a strong shift to electric negativity. And Gilbert Ling explained the so-called "resting electric potential", which is highly negative in a healthy cell, as a battery effect of ... the way you measure it, traditionally, is with a concentrated solution of potassium chloride (3 molar I think it is) . And he said that just this high concentration is enough to account for the potential. And when you measure a cancer cell, you get very little charge when you poke an electrode in. But if you measure outside of the cancer cell, you have this negative field. That's the "injury potential". It's the same as if you cut a healthy area and had an open wound; you would have a shift to the negative electrical charge. And one of my projects in graduate school was a cell electrophoresis. There was a guy at the University of Oregon Medical School, in Portland, doing it on a variety of cells. And so, I built my own apparatus and put in cancer cells in one end of a little glass tube, and a battery mild electric DC potential from one end of the glass tube to the other. And then, with a microscope, you would look at the cancer cells in the tube as you turn on the electric field. And if the cell has a high surface-negative charge, it moves quickly towards the positive pole. And if it's almost neutral, it just sits there. And if it has a positive charge, it moves towards the negative pole. And I got very clear evidence that the cancer cells moved towards the positive pole. And other people with good apparatus (which I didn't have) have measured [either] highly malignant cancer cells, moderately malignant, and mildly malignant (non-metastasizing) cancer cells, and found that the higher their surface-negative charge, the more malignant the cancer is. You don't measure when you stick the electrode in, because your reference electrode is no different (the inside is no different from the outside). Where a healthy cell is oxidizing, subtracting electrons, creating basically a positive, slightly acidic condition. If you poke one electrode into it, you disturb that, and you get a difference between the oxidizing region and the broken, not oxidizing region, which measures as a negative field. And there's 60 (or so) years of good biochemical background for why this happens. Daniel Mazia, for a long time at University of California, Berkeley, and then I think, of the Stanford Marine Biology Station at Monterey ... he, in the 50s, [in order] to understand the cell division process, was staining cells at different stages of growth. And he showed that the sulfhydryl groups, which are normally oxidized to a fair degree, causing proteins to stick to each other by covalent sulfur-sulfur bonds…(which requires that the hydrogens be removed from sulfhydryl groups. [For example,] Glutathione (GSH), if you oxidize two of them (take the hydrogens away), you get GSSG [glutathione disulfide]. And proteins are rich in sulfhydryl groups; if you take away the hydrogens, they stick together. [Then] if you put the hydrogen back (reduce the proteins), they become separated at that point, change their structure, and become more open and mobile)… he and his associates were showing that there is a tremendous increase in the reduced condition of very intense staining of sulfhydryl groups that appears at the beginning of cell division and disappears when the cell division is completed. And Szent-Györgyi was working on cells-like muscles and nerves through the 40’s and 50’s, and showing some very analogous things. His theory of muscle contraction was that it was powered electronically by the conduction of electrons through these semi-conducting proteins. And just by accident, in connection with estrogen metabolism and quinone physiology or biochemistry (that got Szent-Györgyi started on this), I was working along the estrogen side of the system in which estrogen shifts away from quinone oxidative physiology to a reductive physiology. And, in extracting stuff from liver, I was looking for ubiquinone-related things; and I’ve found that vitamin E in a very pure form, with its more or less neutral sort of amber pale color, and ubiquinone, or other quinones, with their orange color, when I combined them, they turned instantly inky black. If you diluted it, it was a sort of a greenish black. And when I put dots of this black combination of the quinone and vitamin E on paper chromatography and passed a solvent up the paper, the vitamin E and the quinone moved at different speeds; and so, they separated. It wasn't a covalent bond that was causing this color change: the solvent pulled the vitamin E right away from the quinone, restoring the pale color of the original material. That's called a donor-acceptor bond, in which an electron momentarily leaves the vitamin E and moves over, for a very short time, to the quinone, but then snaps back because the vitamin E has developed a positive charge in the absence. And you get an oscillation of the electron, which acts like a system of double [covalent] bonds within most pigment molecules. And that oscillating electron, if strong enough to have a slight binding influence ... it's much weaker than a covalent bond because the electron isn't really taken up stably by the quinone. And Szent-Györgyi used a variety of these donors and acceptors. In my pair, it was ubiquinone and vitamin E. But he used ... he found many substances ... if they were close enough to each other in their electronegativity, they could form this kind of a colored bond. And he wondered why the liver is dark purple, blackish purple colored, when there's... if you try to extract anything colored from the liver, grinding it up in alcohol, you immediately get a white solid material with a slight tint (from things like vitamin A and ubiquinone). But he would say "here's the living liver in a very dark intensely pigment-like condition. When you kill it, it's immediately colorless". And he was suggesting that it's a donor-acceptor relationship between something and the protein, or maybe the donor and acceptor at different points on the protein, with the electron moving along the protein and being able to accept light and create the darkening effect. And he found that if he put in one of his… for example, a donor in a muscle preparation, nothing would happen. If he put in the acceptor substance in the muscle preparation, nothing happened. If he put in very unrelated electro-negativities, nothing happened. But if he put in a donor and acceptor pair with just the right [electronegativity] relationship to each other, the muscle contracted. And that was his argument that the muscle contraction is essentially an electronic process and that the living state such as in the liver involves this type of conductivity and light-absorbing property (but without contraction in the case of the liver).

DR: You’ve written somewhere that a group was using the estrogen myths to verify the nitric oxide myths, then to verify the serotonin myths. They were using a series of myths to substantiate their claims. The whole NADH/NAD+ would go off the rails if you thought that NADH should be higher than NAD+; the whole view would be skewed.

RP: Yea. And it extends all the way to…if the cancer cell and the nerve cell have this deficit or excess of electrons, then you’re making the statement about how your electrometer is working, and even about how your redox measurement and pH measuring meters are working. It involves a misinterpretation all along the line; the electrode is misunderstood; the relationship between pH and redox is misunderstood. So, it’s really…I’ve tried making the argument, a couple of times, to professors. And, for example, I said “If the pH meter is working by protons – hydrogen ions – in fact diffusing through the piece of glass you call a membrane, why does it work when you fill it with mercury atoms? – Chuckles –

DR: And they really liked that? Being challenged?

RP: Not much. – Chuckles -

DR: Szent-Györgyi wasn’t a fringe character saying these things. He was getting a lot of things right. Why wasn’t he taken seriously at the time? Was his work not conducive to making products?

RP: Yea. The commercial level of science just couldn’t do anything with him. And pretty much the same with Warburg. And I don’t think Warburg really paid enough attention to Szent-Györgyi. He was a more practical, contrite person than Szent-Gyorgyi. But I think Szent-Györgyi was really on the right track: everything that he proposed practically was validated 30 or 40 years later.

DR: I think in his book “The living state“, he said that nature never gets rid of anything; it only builds on top of it. In an old interview, you said that serotonin might be a very old hormone. And then yesterday, Ii was reading that prolactin also was thought to be a pretty old hormone. And I was pretty intrigued when you said that originally about serotonin. Do you think of the hormones as having a layered effect in evolution?

RP: Oh yea. And that’s the problem with therapies: they forget that when they fix one layer, the organism can go above and below it in many other ways. If they’re thinking in molecules acting locally on the receptor, they’re forgetting the whole big picture of this electric state. An excess of electrons, for example, will activate hormones at all of these levels - the oldest and the newest - in a coordinated way. And so, where conventional drug therapy for any disease, including cancer, becomes infinitely complicated, the fact that the organism is coherent in Mae-Wan Ho’s sense, makes the therapy basically, possibly coherent and very simple. Something like changing the environment in a coherent and appropriate direction rather than trying to, in a reductionist way, act on parts of the organism… If you change the polar, outside conditions, [get] the Vernadsky energy source in sync, then you’re giving the organism a better opportunity to refine and maintain its coherence.

DR: Do you look at the growth hormones and the ones that inhibit oxidative metabolism as the oldest? And then the ones that promote differentiation and oxidative metabolism as newer?

RP: Yea. And I think the hormones are all of them, in a sense, they’re used on an ad-hoc basis: whatever the organism has at hand, it will use. So, I think the healthy organism, in a healthy environment - in the Vernadsky sense: something that’s making good energy available - in that condition, you hardly need your hormones; the flow of energy is the whole thing. And the way you use the energy, the proper application of your differentiated state, that has all of the functions that the hormones can be used for. And since the hormones all have some harmful side effects… like when the pituitary was removed from animals they lived several times longer, showing that largely their reproductive-related hormones were responsible for aging. And if you can use the flow of energy as the organizing principle, then the movement of electrons forming water, and of oxygen, and of fuels such as sugars forming carbon dioxide, then the flow of carbon dioxide and water will be having the differentiating, structuring, hormone-like action.

DR: I think, Karen asked you maybe a while ago in one of the 10 questions ... it was something like: Do you see ... is there like a necessity to aging in your (plight?) that you hadn't seen any evidence of that? Is this kind of Alexis Carrel’s, the heart’s mitochondria (or the cells) that just kept thumping? Until his lab closed down. Is that along the same lines of what you're talking about?

RP: Yah. I think it's our particular environment, more specifically the temperature and oxygen pressure of our environment. The [low] temperatures makes many of the organisms produce unsaturated fat; but our brain development, to use the energy that's available, doesn't like polyunsaturated fats, [because] they oxidize and antagonize oxygen. They're contrary to the flow of energy from sugar to carbon dioxide. So, in this environment with relatively high oxygen pressure and very unstable fats, the process of living has a kind of a negative hormonal influence; it's giving the signals to take emergency measures. And those emergency measures don't let us realize the proper Vernadskian organism.

DR: Do you think there's a time in a person's life that represents that ideal metabolic state? In our past, was this metabolic state realized? (versus this stress-ridden culture of stress and adaptive hormones).

RP: People have observed that newborn humans and cows − the newborn calf has an essentially saturated fat brain − and have said:”This is dreadful that babies are born with an essential fatty acid deficiency in their brain”. [chuckles]. But it happens that when you increase the unsaturated fats in the pregnant animal or human, the brain's smaller and less functional at birth. And in the healthy situations, where you're born with a saturated tissue, as you eat these environmental [unsaturated] fats, they are constantly slowing your metabolism, constantly having an estrogen-like effect, tending to reduce the differentiated cell, eventually turning everything into a sort of a fibrous lump. The ideal estate would be something that could be foreseen from, maybe, an early fetus. If you can keep the environment providing energy and carbon dioxide, and just the right amount of oxygen, but with fuels that weren't contaminated with unsaturated fats and heavy metals, then we could see what the proper trajectory is for a mammal-like [organism].

DR: A lot of people are super interested in your take on antibiotics (generally the macrolides, the tetracyclines, and penicillin). They seem to cause diarrhea and gaz. How do you even know you might benefit from an antibiotic?

RP: Experimenting is good. I was prejudiced against medicine; and so, I was reluctant to ever use such things. But once, [when] I was sick, the landlady gave me something; and I had this characteristic penicillin odor in my mouth and nose. And it went with a kind of euphoria. And I've always noticed that just about the time I can smell penicillin on my breath, there's this euphoric sense of well-being. And I think that means that before that, I was always in a slight state of stress and emergency from whatever bacteria producing irritants and toxins. And just as soon as those stop producing the toxins, I would have this very pleasant, euphoric sensation.

DR: I think you wrote in an e-mail to somebody that you had [this] sensation. I forget my [own] first few experiences; I was watching for that, as I was taking the penicillin, and it happened. And I was pretty intrigued by it. In the past, you’ve suggested 2 to 4 days of using penicillin, versus a longer dose of that. What was the rationale behind that?

RP: I think it was eating a sandwich and mangos in Mexico. I got a very bad intestinal condition and [an] abscess on my jaw. And I realized there was a very quick connection between intestinal inflammation and oral health. Later, I knew a dentist at some of the conferences (orthomolecular meetings, and such), Earl (Clarey?), who no one seemed to pay any attention to it. He gave presentations on various … In his book, he said that he had stopped his very profitable practice treating periodontal disease with surgery. He said, now he just gives them a laxative and he doesn't have to do periodontal surgery [chuckles].

DR: So, if the bowels aren’t right, and there’s something wrong with your teeth, that could be a big indicator?

RP: Yea. And if you have a big intestinal…a massive, putrid material, it can take 2 or 3 days before moderate doses of penicillin can kill that off.

DR: Do you have any confidence in any other current thyroid brands? Because Cynoplus and Cynomel aren’t being sold anymore. Is there a good substitute out there?

RP: For a while, in Mexico, when I wasn’t able to get Cynoplus or Cytomel, I’ve found other brands that were regularly sold there. One was “Proloid S”. And “Proloid“ used to be the concentrated thyroglobuline – the colloid material – without the rest of the gland. And it was at least as good as the old Armour product. But then, like Armour created their Thyrolar, as a synthetic equivalent, Proloid created Proloid S. And I think that’s still available. At least somewhere in the world. And Novothyral is another of the synthetic imitations, except it has a 5 to 1 ratio of T4 to T3, instead of the more ideal 4 to 1, or 3 to 1.

DR: Do you know any replacement for Cytomel? T3-Pro (Thyroid T3) is frequently mentioned.

RP: That’s the Profound pharmaceuticals, I think?

DR: Maybe.

RP: I think that’s what I’ve used for about a week. And it did feel pretty normal to me. So, I would guess that it’s what they advertise it to be.

DR: Synthetic versus desiccated; you would expect the desiccated version to work much slower than the synthetic one?

RP: A little slower. 2 or 3 hours to digest.

DR: Can you explain how you make your coffee? A lot of people are interested.

RP: [chuckles]. Whatever is convenient. But usually filling a paper filter; sometimes a coffee sack. But currently, the little paper colons. When the water is getting hot, I start and moisten the coffee without really getting it very hot. And then, as the water gets hotter and hotter, I keep adding [coffee]. So, the first coffee that drips through is cool and very mild tasting (very little caffeine in it) but it doesn’t evaporate or degrade some of the delicate aldehydes-type flavor molecules (supposedly, they are the most anti-oxidant part, and they are destroyed if you put the boiling water directly on to the grounds). So, I like to get some of the mild, low temperature extract for flavor, and then put a little of the fully boiling water at the very end, to get all the caffeine.

DR: So you do boil it at the end?

RP: Yea. Just the last half-cup or so of water.

DR: At what temperature is the magnesium most readily available?

RP: I think it comes out all along the way. I think it’s loose. So, even if you soak it and make cold coffee, you’re getting magnesium and the so-called anti-oxidants.

DR: What would be the ratio for strong coffee for you? (the grounded one versus water like)

RP: I’ve never weighted it. But a pound of coffee doesn’t last very long, usually. [chuckles]

DR: That’s a big thing to your approach; you often say you’re drinking 5 cups of coffee. It demonstrates you’re very pro food, trying to get the most out of the easily accessible ones, versus eating tons of pills.

RP: Yea. Partly, it’s because all of the manufacturing processes. The industry has gone towards profit and cheapness. And Vitamin E is no longer anything like it was 70-80 years ago. The stuff I used in the lab that reacted with the ubiquinone to produce a black color, I’ve tried that with various more recent types of Vitamin E, and it didn’t work. So, we know that they are taking out various different fractions from the vitamin E. And that lacks highly saturated fatty acids . I think [that’s] a big part of why the old vitamin E, in the 1930’s and 40’s, was so much more therapeutic than the more recent vitamin E studies, that showed it’s really nothing but an anti-oxidant that doesn’t have any of those extremely therapeutic effects that it did 60 years ago.

DR: Do you use Folgers coffee? Is that what you like?

RP: No. There’s a guy in town who scorches his own beans. And it’s just whatever he has that tastes good.

DR: So, you’re not looking for anything specific (how they are grown, for example)?

RP: Oh, it varies. Aluminum coffee is the worst.[chuckles]

DR: Awesome, Ray. Could you talk about your newsletter and what you’ll be working on?

RP: Oh, well, [in] the next newsletter, I'll write about cancer. And probably some of this electronic stuff. The cancer industry, I think, is starting to realize some of the problems. There are people still saying "No; it's still the way it always was". But, I think it was last week in JAMA, there was an article on questioning whether so much emphasis on breast mammograms was really productive. And the prostate doctors in the 90's ... someone did a survey and asked these specialists / neurologists what they would do if they had prostate cancer themselves. And a majority of them said they wouldn't do anything. -[Chuckles] -

And there have been other parallel studies. But before that came out, quite a few doctors started letting their patients avoid surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy for the prostate cancer. Before that, in the 80's, the prostate specific antigen (PSA) was just being researched. And at that time, the mortality, I think, was 20 per 100,000 (population, per year). Then, they discovered the PSA and told everyone to have that measured. And they found lots of people with very high PSA and told them to have biopsies. And so, suddenly the diagnostic rate for prostate cancer surged hugely. But that isn't the important thing. By 1992, the death rate from prostate cancer increased 50% (to 30 per 100,000). In just about 10 years. So, the more diagnosis and treatment in that situation, really, very clearly… showed that the more medicine you have, the more deaths you have. And John Gofman, the radiation specialist, he did nationwide statistical studies, and showed that breast cancer and heart disease correspond very closely to the access to medicine. So that the rich area around Marin [County] in California, I think it was at that time, [had] the highest cancer mortality in the US. West Virginia was the lowest. [Chuckles]

DR: Wasn’t it Dr Hardin B. Jones* that went around the world and thought that if you just did nothing [medically], you'll live a longer and healthier life?

*PS: “Neither the timing nor the extent of treatment of the true malignancies has appreciably altered the average course of the disease. The possibility exists that treatment makes the average situation worse” Hardin B. Jones, PhD

("A Report on Cancer." Paper delivered to the ACS's 11th Annual Science Writers Conference, New Orleans, Mar. 7,1969)

RP: Yeah. And currently, Gershom Zajicek is saying something very similar. He has suggested that the tumor itself might be an ad-hoc organ trying to defend the body against whatever is the problem. For example, he showed studies where when a mole, or a melanoma was removed, suddenly it popped up all over his body. And knowing that sort of studies, a couple of times, doctors told me that I definitely had to have a biopsy of a big, ugly mole. And I was happening to be experimenting with DHEA at one time. And just after a doctor had mentioned that, and just two or three days after I had been fooling around with some DHEA, the mole swelled up like a Maraschino cherry and basically, ate itself up. And so, every time after that, when I would get a diagnosable melanoma, [a] big, ugly, huge…- one thing was as big as a jumbo olive, in front of my ear -... And each time I got one of those, I would just put a little bit of either progesterone or DHEA and vitamin E on the skin near it, not touching it. And within a few days, those things would – sometimes, within hours − they would radically change. For example, a color would change from spotty blue and white to a nice tan color. Or the big black thing would start shrinking. And always, anywhere from one day to disappearing, to two weeks. The biggest, the one like a jumbo olive took almost two weeks. But the last little bit of it was like a gray/green little dried mushroom which fell off, leaving no scar.

DR: That's it for me, Ray. Thank you so much! It's a total pleasure, thank you. I'll talk to you soon.

RP: Ok, very good, thank you, bye.

Antihistamines for Pattern Hair Loss?

Antihistamines for Pattern Hair Loss?

Over the years, a few people have been interested in the ability of antihistamine drugs to completely reverse baldness. For instance, in a small group of ten women with so-called androgenic alopecia an antihistamine called cimetidine showed good to excellent regrowth of hair in seven out of the ten women.[1] In addition to hair regrowth, acne, seborrhea, and hirsutism, which were present in three of the patients, showed significant improvement. Most of the women said that their scalps had become less greasy taking the drug similar to Hamilton's famous immune-to-baldness castrates.