Why Thyroid Is So Important: A Response to Dr. Paul Jaminet
Feb 13, 2012
A few weeks ago I wrote up a critique of The Perfect Health Diet by Dr. Paul Jaminet and his wife, Dr. Shou Ching.
Dr. Jaminet wrote a response to my assertion that liver glycogen was an important factor in resisting stress, and followed up the original post with another on the supposed follies of sugar consumption.
In the article, Dr. Jaminet agreed that carbohydrate intake is critical for the synthesis of the active thyroid hormone, triiodothyronine (T3), however, Dr. Jaminet is not under the impression that thyroid, or any hormone for that matter, should be the focus of a diet for perfect health:
"...In any case I don’t normally discuss hormonal biology because it is too complicated and doesn’t normally provide much insight into what we should do."
Let's briefly discuss my interpretation of why Dr. Peat believes thyroid hormone is so important.
Oxidative Metabolism
Peat views thyroid as an integral part in the cell's ability to produce energy as well as maintain optimal health:
“Thyroid hormone is necessary for respiration on the cellular level, and makes possible all higher biological functions. Without the metabolic efficiency, which is promoted by thyroid hormone, life couldn’t get much beyond the single-cell stage.
Without adequate thyroid, we become sluggish, clumsy, cold, anemic, and subject to infections, heart disease, headaches, cancer, and many other diseases, and seem to be prematurely aged, because none of our tissues can function normally." - Ray Peat
Active thyroid hormone allows for an oxidative metabolism (the metabolism of our youth). In short, an oxidative metabolism creates a lot of ATP, utilizes oxygen properly, and produces boatloads of CO2.
Peat's work suggests that the ability of the cell to produce energy and utilize oxygen (CO2) is the greatest factor in promoting longevity and avoiding degeneration.
An oxidative metabolism goes awry when "respiratory defects," or the inability to metabolize glucose and utilize oxygen, accumulate. PUFA, stress, nutrient deficiencies and numerous other anti-metabolic factors (serotonin, estrogen, prolactin, endotoxin, cortisol, adrenaline, aldosterone, parathyroid hormone, free fatty acids, etc.) can cause respiratory defects.
"Many other diseases are now known to be caused by respiratory defects. Inflammation, stress, immunodeficiency, autoimmunity, developmental and degenerative diseases, and aging, all involve significantly abnormal oxidative processes. Just brief oxygen deprivation triggers processes that lead to lipid peroxidation, producing a chain of other oxidative reactions when oxygen is restored."
If a reduction in thyroid performance coincides with a decrease in cellular energy, this may explain the extremely broad, beneficial actions of thyroid supplementation (Barnes).
Sugar Increases Adrenaline?
Paul did note something quite strange in his article about sugar and its "stressful effects." Paul mentions that in an experiment sucrose lead to increased elevations of adrenaline:
"We can see the stressfulness of sucrose by its effects on the “fight-or-flight” stress hormones adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine). Here is a study that fed high-fat, high-starch, and high-sucrose diets for 14 days to healthy non-obese subjects, and measured the hormonal response."
Paul continues to suggest that Peat has been running on adrenaline for the last several decades:
"One of the effects of adrenaline and noradrenaline is to speed up the pulse rate. If Peat really does eat 400 g of carbs per day, predominantly from sucrose, then he may be achieving his high pulse rate from an “adrenaline rush” that helps dispose of an excess of fructose.
If, indeed, this is a source of improved sense of well-being on Peat-style diets, it may be a double-edged sword. Chronic stimulation of the “fight-or-flight” hormones to aid in fructose disposal may have long-run negative consequences."
If Peat were achieving his high pulse with high levels of adrenaline, it would suggest, A) that he truly has no idea what he's doing, and 2) that his followers would also feel the negative effects of elevated adrenaline (cold hands and feet, cold nose, poor sleep, anxiety). I don't experience this; perhaps some other followers of Peat can leave some thoughts in the comments.
While studies are fun to deconstruct, the results of the experiment don't align with the basic physiology that Peat subscribes to:
"As soon as something interferes with the oxidative production of energy (not having enough oxygen, for example, as when running) we adapt biochemically first by increasing the consumption of glucose for glycolytic energy production. This increased consumption of glucose tends to lower the concentration of glucose in the blood, and this (or various other signals, such as pain or fear, that are associated with the need for more glucose) causes the secretion of adrenalin, which can mobilize glucose from the liver's glycogen stores. If the glucose stores are depleted, the body resorts to the secretion of cortisol, to provide glucose (and other material) by cannibalizing protein from tissues which are momentarily less essential."
This may be a solid reason to rely on personal labs and self-diagnostics instead of interpretations of various studies.
Reader Comments (38)
Hi Danny,
I enjoy your writing, and perhaps this is beyond what you do, but I read your posts with great interest, but being a non medical individual end up at the end of the article thinking, wait, what should I do then. I believe everybody needs a different type of diet, I like to experiment with mine, but with some of your posts, such as this glucose one, at the end I think, should I try more glucose if I want to stop the cold hands, or should I try less. I have a relative who has cold hands, cold feet, cold nose, all that you mention there, she craves sweets, and eats a bit, should I have her experiment with less or more? Can't tell from this article.
So what was your retort, a presentation of personal experience and asking for reader experiences to show that Paul's study was wrong? Just a little tip: check out the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme--it's responsible for catalyzing certain amines like dopamine , serotonin, epinephrine..etc., and it seems to be inhibited by estrogen...but that would go against all of Peat's gospel about estrogen, right?
I sometimes consume orange juice between meals, and when I do, it often makes me feel calm, even sleepy. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the orange juice is, as Ray Peat might suggest, dampening the elevated adrenaline and cortisol that get me through my work day.
I have, at best, mediocre digestion (as a result of years on the SAD and then on a VLC diet), so I am no fructose-digesting superhero. If it were common to get an adrenaline rush from difficulty digesting fructose, I'd expect to get one. So while I respect Paul Jaminet, and acknowledge that he could be right, I don't find his view of fructose as methamphetamine terribly plausible in view of my own experience. I'll look forward to seeing whether Paul J or others can make more sense of the study he cites.
Thanks very much for your articles, Danny. It's terrific that you are helping to make Ray Peat's work more accessible to the public and offering guidance on how to implement his ideas.
For what it's worth, my extremities are definitely warmer and I feel calmer following the Peat protocol (although I need to mention that I am supplementing with a gram or so of aspirin/day, so how much that figures into the equation, I don't know). I have long-standing sleep issues, so it's not fair to say that eating higher amounts of carbs/sucrose is the cause, since I have had it on various diets (including Paleo and SAD). On the other hand, it is fair to say that after 6 months of eating Peatish, my sleep is not at all better either. I still wake up at 2:30 or 3 AM and have difficulty falling back to sleep.
I am enjoying this debate. Keep it going. It would be nice if we could get a direct response from Peat on Jaminet's suggestion that sucrose spikes adrenaline.
Hi Danny,
Can I ask you a question? I have googled to no avail. I'm trying out the Ray Peat style lifestyle, I say trying because I literally do not make it past one day for three reasons:
1. Both orange juice and gelatin cause major diarrhoea, both together and separately, almost instantly, feels a little like food poisoning it's so bad.
2. Raw carrots cause major bloating and pain, mainly because of IBS
3. Hypoglycemia, the large quotient of carbs is causing massive blood sugar crashes and ensuing dizziness and extreme hunger, if I constantly sip on sugar I start to feel really nauseous.
For these reasons I literally cannot get through a single day, it's torture. Any tips?
Sara: Are you getting enough calcium? I've found that my digestive issues, bloating, and so on tends to be much better when I up my calcium levels. If I don't eat calcium my stomach feels heavy from the smallest amount of food, but with enough calcium my stomach seems to crunch on it like an industrial waste disposal unit.
@Jeff,
This article isn't really instructive, more or a musing about hormones and the how thyroid is probably a huge part of the puzzle.
My other articles, as well as the quick start guide, give a bit more instruction.
@Steven,
My retort was that if you open up a physiology book adrenaline happens in situations of low blood sugar/low glycogen.
You and I have a disagreement about what's important. You pontificate about enzymes that we have no way of assessing. Estrogen wastes B6 (decreasing the ability to store glycogen), increases prolactin, and directly stimulates the adrenals to produce cortisol. Damage your liver, increase your serotonin, avoid calcium and don't eat sugar to get more of it.
@Just My $0.02,
Great stuff.
@Thomas,
Have you tried a high-fat, high-sugar before bed (ice cream)?
@Sara,
I would ditch the gelatin for a second, the orange juice may be better tolerated if a pinch of baking soda is added to it. Fresh OJ is also usually better tolerated.
Your issues are a little too complex to diagnosis in the comments section, but a detailed inspection of your lab work is probably in order. Find a competent physician or obtain lab work from directlabs.com.
@Hulda,
Great recommendation. Calcium decreases adrenaline, which can inhibit digestion. Filler-free parmesan and eggshell calcium are great if you can't tolerate milk.
Nice post Danny. It would be great to get Peat's response on all of Jaminet's thoughts.
@Sara .. you sound like you are very acidic. Plain OJ is definitely not going to help your cause. I would listen to Danny and add a pinch of baking soda to your glass when you drink it. You probably also need to take it slower on how much sugar and carbs you are adding in .. especially if your body isn't used to it. After poking around in RBTI for a while, I can't tell you how beneficial a refractometer, PH paper, and the right calciums are for getting a better handle on your health.
Sara,
I am with Tyler. A refractometer is the best tool I have found to improve hypoglycemia. :)
Once you learn how to use it, (simple) you will see clearly how to catch a crash and, rebound
quickly.
Like Danny, I found that Dr. P's approach gave me warm hands and better health. It could be I'm *better off* eating different, but right now I feel too good to stop (feel better than ever, even childhood). Hopefully Steven and others will let me wreck my metabolism in peace. There are literally hundreds-thousands-of factors which influence the endocrine system. Steven the evidence you present-out of context from the level of the hormone, the tissues studied, the millions of lifestyle factors which effect hormone sensitivity, etc.-is not persuasive. It is unsurprising that, in some situations, at some concentrations, certain estrogens in certain tissues do what you say. From that basis you are trying to deny all of Dr. P's "gospel"?
What's more, the idea that "hormonal biology...doesn't provide much insight" is simply too vague to warrant a counterargument. Taken at face value, it is trivially false (has not insulin been used to treat diabetes for almost 100 years?) Taken to mean, *in some situations* hormonal biology doesn't provide much insight, it is trivially true. The article from which that quotation comes does not make the issue any clearer :(
Also, it is extremely unclear to what this minutia amounts. I feel great following Danny's approach. Maybe I would feel slightly better modulating my fructose intake a few percent? Perhaps I'll give it a try, but the bulk of Peat's recommendations, against which I have not seen arguments, will remain.
@David,
Good stuff David.
I wrote this article because I've heard numerous paleo "higher-ups" scoff at the idea of thyroid being the centerpiece in good health, I figured it was a good time to address the issue.
Perhaps I jumped the shark by beating a dead horse with Dr. Jaminet, I think we just think different things are important.
"If, indeed, this is a source of improved sense of well-being on Peat-style diets, it may be a double-edged sword. Chronic stimulation of the “fight-or-flight” hormones to aid in fructose disposal may have long-run negative consequences."
Here is a list of fight-or-flight symptoms from wikipedia:
Acceleration of heart and lung action
Paling or flushing, or alternating between both
Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops
General effect on the sphincters of the body
Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body
Liberation of nutrients (particularly fat and glucose) for muscular action
Dilation of blood vessels for muscles
Inhibition of the lacrimal gland (responsible for tear production) and salivation
Dilation of pupil (mydriasis)
Relaxation of bladder
Inhibition of erection
Auditory exclusion (loss of hearing)
Tunnel vision (loss of peripheral vision)
Disinhibition of spinal reflexes
Shaking
I wonder if Peat followers have experienced any of these. Seeing as acceleration of heart action must coincide with accelerated lung action, I personally have not. My pulse has increased and my breathing has slowed.
When exactly does the long run come Paul? Myself and other long term Peat followers should be feeling some of these by now from having to use adrenaline to "dispose" of the toxic fructose.
Also, the video Paul linked to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRpcc9197k&feature=player_embedded) essentially proves Ray's theories. How come only kids get sugar "highs", aka euphoria, but adults do not? Because they have a powerful oxidative metabolism.
Hey Danny, I don't know what to think of this post. I mean, I feel Paul completely missed the point of your first post by focusing on it's comments section (liver glycogen) to begin with. I was so excited that you extended the opportunity to open a dialogue between the two "schools" but Paul didn't seem to recognize the greater ramifications surrounding some of Peat's ideas and his own work, which tends to ignore the hormones and stress.
Anyways, I have found I'm very inconsistent when it comes to my hands and feet. I cannot explain this. I feel the liquid issue may be playing a part. Ironically, I ate pizza the other day and it seems to heat me up well. Plain white bread tends to do that to me, weird. Also, I have found that I simply cannot drink that much OJ and milk. I now have an ice cream "addiction" as well, which I tend toward when not in the mood for milk or cheese. My concern is not hair loss, I am lucky in that respect, but unlucky with body composition. Paleo has a special place in my heart because it helped me lose a lot of weight and recover a healthier self body image. I will tell you this though, it took effort and at times I literally just chose not to eat or "fasted". I feel much of the paleo community encourages the idea of inducing low grade levels of nutritional stress (fasting, glucose restriction, and protein restriction in PHD's case). This is supposed to have a hormetic effect of some sort. This may be true, I respect the idea at least. Peat on the other hand takes up an opposing view of a vibrant, well-nourished, and energy abundant animal that is resilient to infection, stress, and aging. I believe we can learn from all inputs much how Ray put his own ideas together.
Sorry to rant, but if I were to opt for a more solid food version of HLAF diet how might I approach that? I seem to do better on solid food, but find the liquids invaluable in a pinch. Lastly, what is a refractometer and where do I get one?
@Gabe,
Do you feel that this is a loaded post, or hostile towards Paul?
I'm not trying to blend Paul's ideas with Peat's ideas.
Paul acknowledged that thyroid performance can be increased on a higher carbohydrate diet. IMO the conversation stops there when you consider the benefits of an oxidative metabolism.
About solid food, did you check out this post on liquid causing cold extremities?
http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/2/reader-mail-fluids-lowering-body-temperature.html
90% of the people I coach are dehydrated. All of Peat's stress hormones cause sodium loss. All of them do better with a lot of salt in their diets.
With all due respect, Paul's notion that sugar causes increased "fight or flight" response, is extremely idiotic. Take any BASIC physiology lab and connect a Galvanic Skin Response (GSR) electrode, skin temperature probe, and pulse transducer, to the fingers of a lab partner. Measure the responses in changes of temperature, pulse, electrical sweat response, when consuming either sugar, protein, or fat foods. 9x out of ten, the participant will respond with the most lowered stress level from sugar consumption. Since stress (epinepherine and norepinepherine) cause sweaty palms, vasoconstriction (causing cold hands and periphery), and increased pulse, and when participants consume sugar, their hand temperature remains neutral, or increases, and pulse rate remains the same, we can assume that the consumption of sugar does not have any immediate effect in sympathetic response. I think that since even Paul agrees that sucrose increases thyroid output, and is essential for T3, the case is closed. T3 causes all the reactions in the body that would decrease a need for adrenalin, and I think that even if sucrose had an immediate effect on the sympathetic nervous system, the thyroid support would far outweigh the negative effects.
I'm very new to this approach (I was more familiar with Paleo & Perfect Health Diet before this), and I am very curious if Dr. Ray Peat's dietary guidelines will help with secondary amenorrhea. I just listened to the "Estrogen vs. Progesterone" radio show on EastWestHealing, and I've become very hopeful. Plus, is there a link where I can actually see a list of Dr. Peat's recommendations? Thank You!!
steven
Serotonin is catalyzed by tryptophan hydroxylase and actually inhibits tyrosine hydroxylase, serotonin and dopamine has an antagonistic relationship, when one is high the other is low. Low dopamine leads to depression, low energy, low libido and many other things. So high estrogen = low dopamine, but we dont know anything about noradrenaline or adrenaline from your statement that estrogen inhibits tyrosine hydroxylase, because their conversion from dopamine relies on other enzymes (DBH and PNMT).
Also found this study showing estrogen most surely increases cortisol levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC289587/
Gabe,
A refractometer is a tool used in agriculture, aquariums, and in a health modality called RBTI.
I personally didn't do well with RBTI. But, the refractometer I found to be a gift from God.
You can get one on Amazon. Learning to use it is easy. I suggest hitting up RBTI to learn
their parameters for what is a healthy "brix" range. You will use the refractometer to measure
the "brix" of your urine.
I have been able to use this tool to prevent hypoglycemia. I wasn't aware I was suffering
"reactive hypoglycemia" until I started testing my "brix" This enabled me to watch what foods
dropped my sugars.....and what foods gave me energy. I highly recommend the refractometer
to anyone interested in their health.
Before using the refractometer I ate lots of greens. I don't any longer. Every time I eat a good
serving of veggies my brix falls flat. Meaning my cells are being depleted of energy so my body
can digest the veggies. Not cool. This further suggest that Peat is right about veggies lowering
metabolism. I am not saying veggies aren't a healthy food. But, for me, they cause a very real
drop in metabolism. The refractometer also taught me I was drinking way to much water. Water
washes me out fast. I drink may 2 cups a day now. I have more energy at 50 than I have in many
years. Thanks to the refractometer.
Danny
A while back, this very issue was discussed on both Matt Stone's 180 Degree Health and the Proline blog. The commentor (Jannis) who wrote the article on the Proline blog (http://laproline.blogspot.com/2011/02/sucrose-stress-and-reactive.html), which was later discussed by Stone (http://180degreehealth.com/2011/04/sucrose-vs-starch-and-fat) asked Peat about this issue. Reportedly, Peat stated that the increase in adrenaline is only temporary and after the thyroid has had time to adjust, the adrenaline response would normalize. Apparently, Peat also later sent him some studies showing that this is in fact the case.
Thank you all for your well thought out suggestions!
The calcium one makes total sense as I react really badly to magnesium supplementation, even the supposedly very well absorbed kind. I've always neglected calcium supplementation because I thought it was dangerous. Must give the egg yolks a try.
And you are all spot on, my glucometer measures about 110 when I feel so shakey I can't stand up, might invest in the refractometer. Can anyone link me to one they have bought and can vouch for?
Also, are there any examples of people losing weight on this diet, like real live examples including daily diet? I gained 15lb due to riding the hypo hyper rollercoaster for the past year.
The article in question notes that the much of the additional sucrose was from soft drinks, and the sucrose level was substantially higher than the normal diet of the subjects. There is no discussion as to the caffeine content, but such a stimulant would affect adrenal output. Until I know that caffeine was isolated from the drinks I am skeptical of some of the conclusions drawn by Jaminet (and others). And, as hinted at by Peat, the hormone profile was not examined, a pity since the subjects were all women about 38 years of age. Finally, the conclusion of the authors is somewhat speculative regarding the effects of fructose alone owing to the absence of isolation of the components of sucrose.
The article in question notes that the much of the additional sucrose was from soft drinks, and the sucrose level was substantially higher than the normal diet of the subjects. There is no discussion as to the caffeine content, but such a stimulant would affect adrenal output. Until I know that caffeine was isolated from the drinks I am skeptical of some of the conclusions drawn by Jaminet (and others). And, as hinted at by Peat, the hormone profile was not examined, a pity since the subjects were all women about 38 years of age. Finally, the conclusion of the authors is somewhat speculative regarding the effects of fructose alone owing to the absence of isolation of the components of sucrose.
@ John P, this is very interesting, thanks for your post. If you read my post above, I state that in most individuals tested, an immediate increase in stress (adrenaline) is not seen after sucrose consumption. This is shown through physical markers, which IMO is much more reliable than a piece of paper. I'd like to touch upon your post because your post accentuates the pure context flaws many researchers come to, and I think we can all agree. It is obvious that Stone and Paul have seen or heard about an adrenaline increase after sucrose consumption, but this doesn't mean that it will happen typically. Some individuals metabolize sucrose differently. The subjects that I have studied in physiology lab were typical SAD eaters, and this may be very useful in this context. Since typical SAD dieters usually consume about 300 carbs per day, it's probably safe to say that even they have a better relationship with carbs than any kind of calorie restriction, paleo, or vegan type dieter. I think that if everybody understands that things happen in different contexts, we all can stress a little less about the small things. My point is that just because certain individuals, especially long-term, depleted dieters might have an increase in adrenaline response from sucrose (most likely temporary), it doesnt mean it will happen in ALL individuals.
"Plasma epinephrine concentrations 25 and 50 min after sucrose ingestion were significantly lower than in WE [=Water Experiment] (P < 0.05)."
http://jap.physiology.org/content/84/5/1627.full
Transient effect of stress hormone changes following sucrose: "Cortisol levels tended to be elevated in subjects fed the sucrose diet (P < 0.25). The apparent decline in weekly levels at Weeks 5 and 6 might indicate that the ele-
vation of cortisol in subjects fed sucrose is transient." http://ebm.rsmjournals.com/content/169/1/36.abstract
@Steven
"I think that since even Paul agrees that sucrose increases thyroid output, and is essential for T3, the case is closed. T3 causes all the reactions in the body that would decrease a need for adrenalin, and I think that even if sucrose had an immediate effect on the sympathetic nervous system, the thyroid support would far outweigh the negative effects."
Well said.
@Setphanie,
Downloading the quick start guide and reading the Ray Peat FAQ will help out.
http://www.dannyroddy.com/diet/
http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/29/ray-peats-brain-building-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html
@Colldén,
Awesome. Thanks Colldén.
@John P.
Awesome, thanks John. I'll check out those posts.
@Sara,
There is not a single time I can remember that magnesium didn't make me feel terrible. I went hypo within half an hour of taking it… Not sure why I took it for so long…
@Dr. Paul,
Great stuff Dr. Paul.
@Miro,
Thanks Miro.
How is it you're so above common knowledge? According to people like Emily Deans, serotonin is associated with "low cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) serotonin levels are associated with violence, insomnia, hunger, and suicide, partly because serotonin and its metabolite melatonin play a major role in the mood, appetite, and sleep centers". So how can you suggest that we reduce our levels the way you do?
@Steven,
Hey Steven, I wrote an article on serotonin:
http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/12/serotonin-the-misery-hormone.html
Peat has some great articles on serotonin:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/insanities.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serotonin-aging.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin.shtml
@ Steven
Following essay contains quotes of numerous scientists nto believing in the serotonin hypothesis (p.2):
http://www.yoism.org/pdf/SSRIs&Serotonin.pdf
Check out this Guardian arctile as an introduction:
Meanwhile, in popular culture the depression/serotonin theory is proven and absolute, because it was never about research, or theory, it was about marketing, and journalists who pride themselves on never pushing pills or the hegemony will still blindly push the model until the cows come home. Which brings us on to our second new SSRI study.
I spent 25 years as the chief financial officer of a major research university. I understand how research gets published and I know who pays for it. I have seen about every dirty trick you can imagine when it comes to research. There are literally millions and millions of dollars at stake. There are a large number of studies that refute much of the prevailing medical wisdom of our day, and most of it never gets published. Surprise, surprise. Following the money and politics always leads back to the real rats.
I think people would be wise to read research studies and their conclusions with a healthy dose of skepticism. Studies can be useful, but they sure aren't gospel. Peat seems to know this as well as anyone. Masterjohn seems to be aware of it too. I like Danny's disclaimer. You need to be responsible for your health, not any guru, including Peat, even though I admire his work more so than a lot of others.
What you can do is test your own blood against a variety of foods (or activities) and decide for yourself what works best for you. For example, I know what causes my adrenaline to go up, and it is a lack of sufficient carbs. In my case, potatoes made the adrenaline release worse because of the strong insulin response potatoes invoke in me. I handle milk and OJ fine and my adrenaline and cortisol levels drop like a rock.Interestingly enough, I was never a diabetic, but my H1ac levels drop down to the 4s on milk and Oj and stayed in the upper 5s on a strict low carb diet. Always test, don't assume, and never rely on what "everyone knows." I think you will find your own path much easier that way.
Hi Rusty, good info,
How were you measuring (or gauging?) your adrenaline & insulin responses?
Your body's response to potatoes is interesting, i have just started adding a few potatoes to my diet every now & again.
How do you go with white rice, is it better than the potatoes for you.
@ Danny/Steven Smith
After rereading my post, I don’t think I did a very good job of saying what I was trying to. By “temporary” increase in adrenaline, I was referring to a period of a couple of weeks where one experiences an adrenaline response to sugar consumption (as opposed to a brief transient increase, which by the way may also be true). From what I recall, Peat’s response was something along the lines that an adrenaline response to sugar consumption was due to the increased effect sugar has on the metabolism and that after a few weeks the thyroid should adjust to meet this heightened metabolic demand, at which point sugar would cease to increase adrenaline.
Steven’s point about people with impaired metabolisms (from various restrictive dietary practices) possibly being more susceptible to such an adrenal response makes sense, especially in regards to the above.
Of course, I suspect that an adrenaline response in the context of a high thyroid state is very different than one in a low thyroid state. After all, one of the functions of thyroid hormone is to increase one’s sensitivity to the catecholamines, which would in turn reduce/limit the overall amount of adrenaline being needed and thus released. Conversely, those with low thyroid function are catecholamine resistance (to varying extents), and would therefore require more adrenaline to meet their emergency/metabolic needs.
In addition, I also suspect that increased adrenaline in response to sugar would have a very different effect on the body than an adrenaline response without sugar. For instance, the sugar itself, which increases glucose oxidation, would/should attenuate FA release and/or fat oxidation, and thus prevent/reduce the harmful effects Peat attributes to lipid oxidation. In addition, the increased production of CO2 caused by glucose oxidation should also serve to limit the supposed harmful effects (conversion of tryptophan into serotonin, AGE, etc.).
This is all pure speculation on my part. I find it very fascinating, but can’t prove any of it. I do know, however, that in my own case, switching from starch to sugar has had a profound effect on my body composition. I’ve often wondered if this may in part be due to an increase in adrenaline. I’ve never had my thyroid checked, but I suspect it is low as evidenced by low basal temperature and pulse (not to mention that for the past 10 years or so I have generally been on some kind of restrictive diet). Therefore, it is quite possible that I am one of the individuals who experience increased adrenaline to sugar, although I can’t say that I experience any of the other physical effects associated with adrenaline. All I know is that I have gotten fairly lean recently by eating sugar to appetite. If body fat is being lost, then one is entering some kind of fat burning state at some point. Whether that point is a result of adrenal stimulation to sugar or sugar’s overall heightened metabolic effect, I cannot say.
John P, What type of sugar have you been consuming? Fructose?
@John P.
Great comment.
@daz,
I used blood tests. There is an extensive 24 hr urine test that can be used to measure all the catecholamines, including epinephrine (adrenalin). However, you would need to carry around this little jug and pee in it every time you need to go. It is a huge pain in the butt. Plus, if you ask your physician for that test he will probably wonder why you think you have an adrenal tumor. Also, there are several things they don't want you to eat or drink for 3 days before the test regardless of whether your test is urine or blood. Large doses of niacin, coffee, and citrus fruits (grapefruit probably the chief offender) are items Peat recommends that doctors feel like raise the level of these adrenal hormones prior to the test. If so, that would tend to support Jaminet's argument. However, there are several things that lower the level of these hormones, including salicylates (aspirin) which Peat also recommends. I asked one of my doctor friends about it and he thinks excluding and including specific foods for the purposes of a test is really dumb. He believes the test ought to reflect what you are actually doing, and I agree with him. For what it is worth, citrus fruits lowered all of my stress hormones, but that may not be true for you. Test your own blood. Get rid of known offenders, like PUFA, and remember that blood tests change all the time. No need stressing out over a bad one once in awhile. You need to be trending over time to where you want to go. I don't know there is a perfect diet for everyone. I tend to doubt it. I like a lot of Jaminet's work, I just think Peat has a more comprehensive view of how our bodies actually function as a general rule.
No, rice does not cause the same response in me as potatoes. I have a friend that is on the 6th year of a 10 year sail around the world. He stops in places for 6 months at a time. He says that rice is the only food that he has seen that is eaten everywhere he has been. Rice, cigarettes and alcohol are nearly universally consumed according to him, yet the US and Canada are the fattest countries he has seen in 6 years. Figure that one out. We spend the most on "health" and we are around 36th in life expectancy at birth now. Obviously, whatever we are collectively doing isn't working.
2 weeks ago i had an unpleasent incident which i suppose was due to this "sugar->adrenaline" problem.
Almost entirely replaced my usual carb sources (potatoes, buckwheat and some fruits) with sugar+molasses 200-300g a day. I felt fine and after 100g dose, hadnt had a hunger for at least next 5 hours.
However at the dawn of the 2nd day problem occured: libido completely gone just as erection, and sweating like hell all day long, although i was feeling full of energy.
I was initialy suspicious of too much liver I ate those days, but at the end of 5th sugar day with no change in "symptoms" I was quite scared, ceased sugar and restore original carbs.
Next time im definitely goint to increase the "dose" little by little.
Hope it somehow contributed to topic and sorry formy english.
@ Gregg
My main sugar sources are milk, honey, orange juice, Ovaltine, ketchup (I slather it on my food) and low-fat icecream (combination of sucrose and HFCS).
I'll be brief: Bless you and Dr Peat for green lighting OJ, Parm. cheese and sugar and gelatin Amen. :-)
@Deb,
:D